Eh, it has an impact. It's not always obvious but it adds up over time. Use your analogy of choice: slowly building up pressure until it boils over or a small pebble starting an avalanche or whatever works for you.
I don't necessarily agree with the OPs approach. He could have filed a complaint or done any number of things that may have been better. But in the heat of the moment nobody is making perfectly rational decisions.
Regardless, we need to fight back against abusive systems on the big and on the small. We won't always get it right but the act of fighting is what matters.
Nope. It’s like thinking you can overthrow the government by littering. It’s just being lame. If you’re going to be lame to other people, don’t gloat about your lameness online. “If everybody littered, they’d have to do something about it!”
It's needlessly generating excessive amounts of trash and waste. It's wasting tax money. It's hurting the next blind person who won't be able to fax his documents because the machine is down/overloaded. It does not show why fax is stupid. It shows that faxing reams of unnecessary paperwork is stupid. It does not show that they should accept PDFs over email (genuinely a great way to get hacked). There is no benefit in trying to DoS the SSA office.
You kind of missed my point but that's OK. You can agree with or disagree with the action OP took, I'm not making a judgement call on that.
What I'm responding to the the notion that "no action you can take matters." Specifically this:
>Individual human beings acting individually are totally irrelevant when it comes to the behavior of large organizations.
I just don't believe that. Small actions do matter and are necessary because they enable the big actions later. You have to start somewhere. Even if it feels insurmountable. No major change ever just happened in isolation, it always happens when enough people have had enough and fought back enough that the change was inevitable.
What's missing is coordination. Coordinated individuals taking actions together can change things. But just relying on individuals stochastically, randomly acting doesn't work. You can't random-walk your way to political change, even if a lot of people are random-walking in one direction.
Worker rights didn't just spontaneously appear because enough people wanted them. They came about through organizing, coordinating and leading. Same for Women's suffrage, Civil rights, gay rights...
I worked briefly with an idvidual who had this extreme bureaucratic mentality. I just can't even imagine how you can talk to another person and have no empathy at all for their situation and only care about the process. I also know processes exist for a reason, people will abuse things, and these processes are designed to prevent abuse.
I don't have an answer. I just know that my empathy is too strong. I could never be so rigid and would not thrive in a career requiring that level of disconnect.
Sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this, but lawyers are fine. Sure, AI will have an impact, but nothing like the once hyped idea that it would replace lawyers. It has actually been amusing to watch the hype cycle play out around AI when it comes to lawyers.
My parents had a weird green card and paperwork issue that was becoming a big problem. Everyone in their social circle recommended an immigration type lawyer. Everyone.
My dad was confident he could figure it out based on his perplexity Pro account. He attacked the problem from several angles and used it for help with what to do, how to do it, what to ask for when visiting offices, how to press them to move forward, and tons of other things.
Hell, the tech savvy senior lawyers are already using LLMs to do the work that army's of juniors and other assistants did for them. Just like what is happening with software engineers. Anybody who thinks this isn't going to have some kind of impact is mental.
Definitely. But I think the nature of that impact is not entirely clear. In the legal context, LLMs are also hallucinating extensively, citing made up case law, etc. It’s not yet clear whether they are potentially solving one problem, while introducing many others.
Lawyership in the sense of the profession may survive and adapt. Individual lawyers, not so much. I strongly doubt the new equilibrium (if we ever reach one) will need so many lawyers.
I've forced myself to git gud with FreeCAD. It's better. Way better than it used to be. It's also still a very complex and user unfriendly application with a long road ahead of it.
You can make it work. You can also save yourself a lot of headache by using other CAD tools. Personally I value "Freedom" so I will continue to use it despite the difficulties but that may not be the right path for others.
Can't upvote you enough. This is the way. You aren't vibe coding slop you have built an engineering process that works even if the tools aren't always reliable. This is the same way you build out a functioning and highly effective team of humans.
The only obvious bit you didn't cover was extensive documentation including historical records of various investigations, debug sessions and technical decisions.
Building a fancy looking process doesnt mean output isnt slop. Vibecoders on reddit have even more insane "engineering" process.
parent comment has all these
How is this different than Amazon? Same problem there. Oh, you're using this new service? Need to view the logs? Want a nice friendly UI to do that? Fuck you here's Cloudwatch. Good luck.
Just to be clear, I'm responding to the parent comment not the article.
That's great but that's not really the problem. The real problem is Amazon likes to release services that depend on other services, but leave the integration work to us.
I'm convinced Amazon has many teams crapping out new features but they don't have the political clout (or manpower) to create a comprehensive product. They are mandated by management to use existing services, and thus we the users suffer because we have to manage all this extra crap and noise just to enable basic functionality.
It's maddening. And then also it's maddening to see another service from a different team that was able to throw off these shackles and actually make a product that is self contained. You get a taste of how good things could be, and then you're thrown right back into the IAM/SQS/Cloudwatch/Cloudformation/Policy/everything else under the sun soup.
See my other comment. Logs are just one small symptom of a larger problem of poorly integrated very complex services where the complexity is pushed onto the users and not properly managed by Amazon. Which sounds very much like the problems with Azure.
That's kind of the point. These things don't just happen, people start talking about it at a high level (this doc, conversations like this) and then dig in and solve the problems over time.
@dang this is a very interesting and relevant doc. I think it needs another chance at making it to the front page.
This is a fairly easy to read doc discussing some of the challenges with using AI tooling in a forward thinking and disciplined way. Coming from Thoughtworks it also gives a bit of gravitas and legitimacy.
There's good stuff in here. It would be a shame for the larger HN community to miss out on this conversation.
You're right that this isn't some groundbreaking revelation. If you're using AI enough to be feeling it, you're feeling/seeing what they're talking about. The purpose of a paper/retreat like this it get it all together and written down on paper, then to disseminate it to the wider world. I think the paper does a good job of collecting info that isn't wrong, and which has enough info to help guide folks making decisions.
Mainly because Martin Fowler is part of their C suite
I agree that it's marketing material, but that doesn't instantly make it garbage. I've been reading their quarterly Thoughtworks Radar for a while now and it's clearly put together by people who understand the industry.
Sigh. Nobody is ever going to be happy. Would saying it came from a rando Reddit user be better?
They at least put the effort into having the retreat and putting this together. Would other consultancies (who we know little about) have of done the same?
I think the original title is better than the current one, though: "The future of software engineering – [Thoughtworks] retreat findings and strategic insights"
To me, "Where does engineering go?" is a much more opaque title than "The future of software engineering", the latter of which immediately tells me what this is about.
This. I only ask LLMs to summarize non-critical stuff, i.e. just give me a general summary of all the work done over the past week.
If I were in need of hard analytics you can be damn sure I'd have it build a tool with a solid suite of tests following a rigorous process to ensure the outputs are sound. That's the difference between engineering and vibing.
Yes, you have to calibrate the effort to the task, you can't just blindly vibecode it. But if you treat it like a new college hire who still remembers their stats course, rather than a senior analyst who will just come back with the right answer, you can do some pretty high-level stuff that's trustworthy. It's so fast that it's no problem to double/triple check everything and even do it with multiple methods.
I don't necessarily agree with the OPs approach. He could have filed a complaint or done any number of things that may have been better. But in the heat of the moment nobody is making perfectly rational decisions.
Regardless, we need to fight back against abusive systems on the big and on the small. We won't always get it right but the act of fighting is what matters.
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