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> it definitely helps to have gay culture and gay icons just out there in the world, melded seamlessly with the rest of society.

On one hand I agree, but it's never been sufficient. There have been gay icons for a long time (probably forever); Oscar Wilde springs to mind, and Alan Turing (though I don't know if he was well-known to the public). And even with their status, they were still persecuted and ruined.



I think icons like Oscar Wilde are distinct from the root of why Glee was part of LGBT acceptance developing.

When we watch a show, we think of the characters as people. It helps eliminate the problem of people who don't think they know any gay people. Maybe you don't have a cousin or uncle who's gay, but that guy in Glee was gay, and he seemed okay right? Icons don't trivialize things in the same way, because by their nature they're viewed as different.


But it's another thing to be on Fox (the television channel) and on top of mind for young people. Gay is just an adjective to them, not this twisted idea with hateful baggage. Oh, she has red hair and he's gay. Moving on.

It's not really the gay icons as much as it is the gay banality. Having gay just exist in plain sight.


I'm not sure what to think. Oscar Wilde was, as I understand it, exceptionally well known, the superstar of his day. He might not have had TV to broadcast him, but celebrity existed before TV. Also, there long were celebrities who were black, especially in music and sports (e.g., back in the 1930s, Louis Amrstrong, Duke Ellington, and Joe Louis), and yet racism persisted. Also, everyone knows gay people.

On the other hand, I recently saw a survey of Americans that tried to determine how their personal relationships with gay people affected their views of gay marriage. IIRC, around 30% responded they didn't know anyone who is gay. That said it all! (EDIT: I should be clear: My point is that there is no way 30% don't know a gay person; I doubt that's true of 1%. They are just in denial.)


I think a large part about "tolerance" is actually knowing someone in [whatever minority group].

I've been thinking of having contrived mechanisms exist, basically "meet a gay person" info booths.




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