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> For anything like US democracy, laws, police, secular government, freedom of religion, etc., just f'get about it.

Clearly you haven't read much history about Islam and can only see the world from what the US media feeds you. Somehow you've been led to think that US 'democracy' is the epitome of a civil world and if a nation is unlike it- then it is some dystopian society.

Islam had all of those things during its founding and up until the Mongols came- during its reign the most controversial land were once governed by peace and had all Christians/Jews/Muslims living side by side. To not cut too much from your time watching Fox News, here's a primer on history; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpcbfxtdoI8



> Clearly you haven't read much history about Islam and can only see the world from what the US media feeds you.

It's not about me. It's about current US foreign policy with respect to the current Afghanistan and some other Islamic countries. The movie 'Lawrence of Arabia' claimed that there was lighting on the streets in Damascus 900 years ago or some such. Fine. Terrific. But that doesn't say much about the Islamic countries today.

If you see something wrong with what is in the US media about current Islamic countries, especially Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, then be clear where they are going wrong.

> Somehow you've been led to think that US 'democracy' is the epitome of a civil world and if a nation is unlike it- then it is some dystopian society.

What I wrote clearly claims that the US has "totally unrealistic, head in the sand, simplistic foreign policy nonsense", thus, meaning that I don't claim that the US is your "epitome of a civil world". But considering Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Somalia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, I'd pick the US. Maybe there's hope for Lebanon returning to be the Paris of the Mideast. And maybe Jordan and Kuwait are doing well.

I suspect that the Saudis are making a strong and sincere effort to move forward some centuries quickly, e.g., before their oil runs out. But they have a long way to go and are moving slowly, as likely they should.

Since you are interested in history, here's one from history for you: Religion running everything and religious governments don't work very well. Europe figured this out after some hundreds of years of their rivers running red from religious wars.

The lesson is still true, and the Islamic countries need to figure this out. But a big, huge problem in many Islamic countries is that Islam is the only 'culture' they have so that without Islam they are left with no culture at all and quite literally don't know what clothes to put on or what to eat for dinner. So, they can't just throw out Islamic culture; instead they have to replace it with something better, slowly.

For Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea, clearly they do some things well, but they are all Asian, and I would never be able to figure out Asian culture.

Sometimes I wonder considering Canada, Switzerland, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Scotland and the US, maybe I wouldn't still pick the US. Maybe. But I've been in the US so long I likely wouldn't fit in at any of those other countries. I suspect that, still, net, net, the US is the best place. For France, Italy, and Austria, maybe someday I will go on a food tour and pig out in Paris, Marseilles, the Piedmont, and Vienna!

> To not cut too much from your time watching Fox News

I cut out TV. For Fox, I got tired of O'Reilly and couldn't stand Chris Wallace. O'Reilly was too often wrong, and Wallace was just so obnoxious he wasn't even wrong. Then my cable company offered me TV, phone, and Internet for less than just phone and Internet, so I accepted. The set-top box has been sitting here for several months, and I use it for a clock. So far I have yet to attach a TV to it. And I have no other source of TV. I haven't watched any TV, or Fox News, in months. On the Internet, I don't much like the Fox Web site. Your assumption that I watch Fox News is just flatly wrong.

> here's a primer on history

And I wrote on current events. I made it really simple: We can't fix the culture of Afghanistan. So, for US national security, step 1, put INTEL in place. Step 2, leave. If our INTEL tells us that they are about to attack us again, then level them. Done. History doesn't have much to do with it.




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