Good points Numair - also probably pretty useful to people who don't know the law, deductions, exceptions. I know a lot of it off the top of my head but I think we've built a better thread together.
As for me, I've never tried to slough off my taxes because I've wanted to show the income to improve credit and be able to get bank loans and show track record later. I was putting the view out that higher taxes could equal lower yields, which is, like, a doubly bad thing. Certainly, the IRS/INS duo means something. An American renouncing and not paying taxes they know about means you really can't come back, which is ugly. If you don't like living here, there's still some really amazing places here worth coming back to every so often. I really root for our government, partially because I live here right now, and partially because of some latent patriotism going on. If taxes went up and yields went down, I'd really be shaking my head.
Anyways, cheers for having the international tax discussion with me, hope everyone can learn a thing or two from it.
Agreed, and I feel the exact same way. Hopefully some of what has been outlined here will help those who come across this thread and start thinking of strategies to "get out of it." You really can't, and I agree that you really shouldn't try. Love your country enough to openly criticize it, and try to find a way to make it better.
We're still the best country in the world, which is plainly evident once you've spent enough time running around the world. Yeah, it's somewhat ridiculous that it costs 45% of your income (and rising) to have a California license plate and a US passport, but there's something enjoyable about the notion of being "too rich to care," which is likely to come into vogue if taxes go up; the highly-taxed wealthy in Sweden and Denmark are examples of what I'm talking about.
With all due respect, I disagree. Life is about you and the people you care about (which could be the whole world, but generally isn't). IMHO, you don't owe anything to some country you happen to be born in. They should be treated exactly like a business (as far as is practical of course): i.e. if you can get a better deal somewhere else, I would take it. (note: "better deal" doesn't just mean lower taxes, there are many issues to consider)
>We're still the best country in the world, which is plainly evident once you've spent enough time running around the world.
I've spent a few years out of the U.S. and I strongly disagree. The fact is, I disagree with the idea of a "best country in the world". I think which one is best for you depends on what you want.
> We're still the best country in the world, which is plainly evident once you've spent enough time running around the world.
Sure, the US is the best country in the world... unless you like democracy, equality, high standard of living, low rate of crime and corruption, universal access to high-quality education and medical care, and civil rights.
The list of countries that score above the US on those metrics is very long, including a healthy chunk of the EU, non-EU European nations and Scandinavian states, and major former British colonies (Canada, Australia).
I'm an American who has "spent enough time running around the world" to see what a farce this is, and I've settled in a non-US country which is, in my opinion, vastly superior in every way but shopping and the costs of setting up a business and the friendliness of waitstaff.
I feel almost exactly the same [1], and I too would love to have a reasoned, non-emotional debate about this with someone to see if I am indeed missing something. But I think lionheart is correct that it's probably not realistic. I think pg gives a good explanation as to why this is the case in [2] and I find this unfortunate. If you can't see any flaws in what you have, how can it be fixed?
[1] Well, actually I'm not convinced setting up a business is that much more expensive if at all. It depends on living expenses. Getting investors is harder, but the trend seems to be going away from investors anyway.
I'm also not convinced on shopping. The selection is obviously better in the U.S. but all the places I've lived in the U.S. seem to have utterly abandoned quality in favor of "cheap". The worst of these for me is the food.
Patriotism is not something you're going to have a reasoned debate on. Also, I upvoted you to "make you whole", and you got downed again. In this case, it's not likely about the quality of your arguments/discussion.
One of the more insightful Overcoming Bias pieces I've read:
"Politics is an extension of war by other means. Arguments are soldiers. Once you know which side you're on, you must support all arguments of that side, and attack all arguments that appear to favor the enemy side; otherwise it's like stabbing your soldiers in the back - providing aid and comfort to the enemy. People who would be level-headed about evenhandedly weighing all sides of an issue in their professional life as scientists, can suddenly turn into slogan-chanting zombies when there's a Blue or Green position on an issue."
As for me, I've never tried to slough off my taxes because I've wanted to show the income to improve credit and be able to get bank loans and show track record later. I was putting the view out that higher taxes could equal lower yields, which is, like, a doubly bad thing. Certainly, the IRS/INS duo means something. An American renouncing and not paying taxes they know about means you really can't come back, which is ugly. If you don't like living here, there's still some really amazing places here worth coming back to every so often. I really root for our government, partially because I live here right now, and partially because of some latent patriotism going on. If taxes went up and yields went down, I'd really be shaking my head.
Anyways, cheers for having the international tax discussion with me, hope everyone can learn a thing or two from it.