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The US was historically self-interested in empire building, with an excellent PR campaign in front of it, but... it also did useful and good stuff, both for its allies and for unrelated parties. USAID was a testament to this.

PR spin aside, it was largely a force for global stability (a few notable and disastrous military quagmires aside). "Free trade" isn't much of a philosophy to hang your hat on but it is an ideal of sorts, and it allowed a more connected world.

Now? Brazen corruption, kleptocracy, hostility towards allies...

It's certainly fair to say the US never lived up to the ideals it espoused, but now it's not even espousing those ideals and seems to actively be working against them.



> USAID was a testament to this.

Absolutely. Credit needs to be given where it's due.


> PR spin aside,

Then the comment repeats the same PR spin.


The thing is, look at all major military alliances in history.

How many of them have a wealthy hegemon and wealthy minor partners?

It's <<extremely>> rare for that to happen and the US managed that for about 80 years.

Ignore all the propaganda and look at the results. Actions, not words.

In the modern era there are basically 0 wealthy Russian (similar story for the Soviets) or Chinese allies.


That’s a different topic. This is about how America acts towards the world, historically the so-called second and third world but now apparently to potentially everyone.


They're related, though. Most other hegemons sought absolute domination and a weakening (and impoverishment) of everyone else. The US was generally confident in its security and prosperity that it allowed others to become prosperous, too.


Yes this is I think the key thing... the "rising tide raises all boats" strategy. The deal was, if you play by the US rules and let their corporations in, they'll leave you alone or even give you back something useful in return.

Now the rug pull... you've been operating this way for the last 50 years, and suddenly the US is out to extract as much from you as possible no matter how close an ally you are or how friendly to their corporations you are.

I'm tired of the both-sidesing that I see on places like HN to justify the current administration's actions. The US historically didn't shake every country down (even allies!) under the implicit threat of its military might, because global stability and prosperity was good for US business interests.

It did try to overturn unfriendly regimes but it was far less brazen and reckless about this, operating over longer timelines, and the instability caused by those disastrous interventions seemed like it was a lesson learned (but now has clearly been forgotten).

This shit is terrifying.


Reading these statements in isolation they all look like damning with faint praise. But they are all sincere.

So strong is the instinct to pay tribute to the nice hegemon of the previous election.


No they are not. Second and third world countries, not buddy first world countries. They don’t get to just do their own thing. Need I go on.


South Korea and Taiwan were definitely not first world countries when they started. Not even inhabited by white people (so less likely to be favored by 60s America, for example).

The Persian Gulf states (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE).

Israel also wasn't developed in 1947.

Let's not ignore facts when they're inconvenient.

In the Western Hemisphere the US track record has been a total mess but in the Eastern Hemisphere I'd say about 30% of the time US allies tripped on their own feet on the way to prosperity.


Your whole side topic here is an exercise in ignoring the inconvenient facts of murder and destruction in favor of some supposedly rosy alliance narrative.

Yeah I remember elementary school too. Where people don't care if one of the kids is an a*hole because "he's nice to me".




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