Same.

Combined with bad security practice from OEMs, preinstalled bloatware, app fragmentation (I love having Samsung "Phone" app and stock phone app at the same time) and customer service (try replacing your phone battery and compare the experience of ubreakifix and Apple store), I don't see a reason to go Android.

(P.S. people who cannot afford the latest iPhone can always purchase a two year old used/"refurbished" phone. It's a solid choice and many people do that. The fact that you can now add Apple Care to 4 year old device makes this more viable.)

Apple also has great long term support.

They just shipped security updates for the iPhone 6S which came out 10 years ago.

I must live in a parallel world because here it’s significantly easier to get an Android phone fixed than an iPhone. Plus you don’t have to pay Apple extortionate price for parts.

In the US, replacing a Samsung phone battery is not any cheaper than iPhone, and likely you'll get the phone next day unless you show up at the repair shop at 8am. Apple store? Just walk in one and you'll get it done in 1-2 hours.

It looks like Apple would charge $89 to replace a battery in my iPhone 13 Pro. I tried to find the price Samsung would charge for my wife's S21 but I had no luck (their site and SEO is a disaster). Is it much less than $89?

I paid £85 to replace the battery in an iPhone Mini 3 weeks ago, and my S22 battery can be officially replaced for £80.

Here Timpsons provide the service outlets for Samsung, although that probably does not help you. But it is basically the same price.

You can get the S22 repaired with no loss of functionality for significantly less than that if you go to another repairer and even the official channel is cheaper despite the S22 having a bigger battery than the 13 Mini.

And that’s for battery. Just take a look at screen repair if you want to cry.

> even the official channel is cheaper

Samsung.com/uk says £79, so I don't agree with that.

Is this freedom? Man you need to go into some lengths just to power up your piece of equipment. Next step is to be required to provide some biometry just to use a wall socket for the sake of protecting some children from electrocuting.

I mean you could just get a Fairphone or any other Android with replaceable batteries/parts. At least with Android you do have this freedom of choice.

Not "always", Apple doesn't provide official warranty in my country, and even replacing batteries carries significant risk. Forget about more involved types of servicing. There are lots of places like that.

I feel sorry for you. I have experienced their support in both Germany and The Netherlands and it's stellar. You can call them, get someone on the line in a few minutes and they will genuinely try to help you. One time there was an issue with a transaction (amount subtracted twice), within a few minutes of calling I was in contact with someone from their finance department who not only solved the issue, they also called back a few days later to verify that I got the refund and to check if I was happy with their help.

Another time my wife wanted Apple Care, but decided on the last day and the website didn't offer the option anymore. She called, they were really helpful and again called back a few days later to check everything is good on our end.

They are a big-tech company, but actually being able to call someone and getting swift help is refreshing.

Edit: I only now realize the accidental pun: you probably won't be getting 'Swift' help. :p

I could never give Apple another dime, they're the ones responsible for enabling and normalizing this.

And if Android's removal of rights lags 5-10 years behind Apple again in the future, that's a win.

Yeah, this is exactly my reasoning too. And with Google making it harder for OSes like GrapheneOS to run on Pixel devices, my next device will have to be an Apple one. There's nothing left in the Android ecosystem for me.

Yup, same here. I've even talked family members into joining me. If this goes through and locks me out of installing things that aren't officially signed, I'll be done with Android.

At least, the standard version. If Samsung or someone keeps it open, I'd probably move to that.

I have an iphone and I feel a frequent nagging in the back of my head to switch to android despite the serious created by ecosystem lock-in and it's solely for the benefit of sideloading. Like you said, why would I leave apple's refined and increasingly customizable walled garden for google's half-assed one? Especially when Google is explicitly an ad company (I know apple isn't that much better).

Why go from a devil to another? Consider Ubuntu Touch it's actually pretty good and the dev community is really welcoming. Feel like the old school linux groups.

Well, for one I do a lot of Photography with my phone because I enjoy the flexibility and portability of it.

I do have a good camera but when you're out and about its still too big for my liking. Most importantly, phones now a days come with a roughly 100mm equivalent and thats kind of my favorite lens for street photography (weird, I know, I enjoy taking close up photos of buildings, signs, cars).

Another reason why i like phone photography is how quickly i can share my pictures with the people i care. I don't really care for posting my photos on social media that much I want to send good photos of my travel/life to my friends through chatrooms.

So a good camera on a phone is essential to me. Particularly a good telephoto and a good main camera (so like 30-100mm).

With that in mind my range of possible phones is drastically reduced. Of course, I enjoy side loading apps and so as of now I've been relatively happy with something like the pixel 8 pro that I've had for a while. But I recently compared it to the iphone 16 pro and that one is better when it comes to the casual photography/videography experience by a lot. So I was already wavering and with these changes it feels like the final nail in the coffin to me.

1.0 around the corner. Really hoping mobile and handheld Linux os take off

I am out of the loop with the entire thing. I used to an android dev back then. Google's shenanigans is the reason why I left mobile dev. Does this mean I cannot even compile and install apps on my phone from android studio?

No, they're not removing ADB install capabilities

So I can just adb install any apk I want, no matter if it's a Google authenticated developer who signed the app? So f-droid would continue to work fine so long as they install via adb instead of the intent mechanism or whatever it currently is?

AFAIU your device will no longer pass their treacherous "Play Integrity", which means that many banking and government applications will no longer work. For me it's a complete deal breaker because that's 99% of why I own a smartphone at all.

Apple is prohibitively expensive here, there's no official warranty and much difficulty with doing quality battery replacements, so I will probably have to own two phones.

It seems that won't affect Play Integrity for now. But I wonder if we'll eventually see rooted (GrapheneOS etc.) phones installing patches to banking apps to fool them into thinking they're legit. Hacked Nintendo Switches already do something similar.

In case there's a misunderstanding, GrapheneOS doesn't provide root access, and fooling apps won't be possible as the platform keeps moving towards stronger hardware attestation.

However banks can use the hardware attestation API instead of Play Integrity API to allow alternative distributions like GrapheneOS [1]. All of my financial apps happen to work on GrapheneOS.

[1] https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...

Thanks, I was confused. I thought you needed to root the phone to install GrapheneOS, but it seems you only need to unlock the bootloader.

That's available right now as Frida plugins etc. The problem is that remote attestation is done on the server and bank backend API would be able to call Google Play API to check the attestation and deny access. Nothing you can patch on the app side could change that.

That's not true - you can enable developer mode and install apps via ADB without affecting Play Integrity for other apps on your device. You can test this today.

Play Integrity is focused on checking the OS is original and the runtime environment of the app (your banking app in this case) isn't being messed with. Installing other apps as a developer isn't related to that. If you're not flashing a custom OS or modifying your bank's APK you'll be fine.

(You _should_ be able to use custom OSs and Play Integrity is awful, to be clear - but not because of anything directly relate to normal app development & sideloading)

You are describing the status quo rather than what the Google has said they will do in the future.

That's not true. Enabling developer options or installing via ADB won't impact Play Integrity

I somehow wish both things we working - as in "sandboxed" / "isolate" one from another (if that makes any sense).

So I can install my F-Droid on one of the partition, and actual personal stuff on the other. Bit like my Chromebook with Crostini.

In the newest android there is now an option to enable a "Linux development environment" AKA crostini for Android.

It works the same way, there is a Linux terminal application that runs Debian inside a VM. They recently added a button to launch a display window. This then functions as your "monitor" and applications you launch that provide a GUI display there.

Still experimenting with it not clear if you can launch android inside that with waydroid or similar

The terminal has a nasty bug where sometimes it starts typing a bunch of stuff with each keypress. The only way to fix it that i found is to close the terminal, which isn't much of a fix

You can. Install a work profile on the device (You can use a third party app like Island) to do this. Then you can install apps into their own sandbox.

I do have work profile, and used it in the past, but as soon as you really want to use it as work profile, then some admin program would like to take over your phone, and not just your work profile - so no "dev mode", etc. (Or maybe I have old info... not sure).

But good suggestion to try this again!

The target is more the likes of f-droid or the Amazon Store or Epic going "We don't like the Play Store policy, download Fortnite.apk from us", than developers compiling stuff and loading them on their own phone

Same. Going to go for the prettier jailed garden instead of the uglier one. Can pay the cost of ugly with freedom. But if you are gonna get jailed anyways, why not choose the one with better interior decoration ?

I too am considering that. I give up many smartphone benefits in the name of privacy and control, but if open source Android withers, then I'm going to shift to choosing quality and service.

For one, I get to use a pre-paid phone, and with the price of an iPhone I get one or two Androids, which always get used until they break down.

For completeness, how long is that? iPhones tend to get security updates for, what, 7 years? Consistently?

Since the 6s, iPhones get 6 or 7 versions of iOS (including their release version), which puts them at about 7-8 years of full support less whatever features (like Apple Intelligence) don't get support on some hardware. Before the 6s, it was lower but the hardware was also changing a lot faster (like going from 32-bit to 64-bit ARM).

But for security updates they've pushed it up to 10 years. The 6s, 2015, got a security update this month.

They're actively supporting (at least security updates) iOS 15, 16, 18, and now of course 26. 17 was skipped because no devices lost support with it, everything that could run 17 can run 18.

I have phones between Android 12 and Android 15, they still get the updates that are available from PlayStore.

Everything else, it isn't like I am a public figure that has to have ultimate security devices.

> Why would i want half assed google walled garden when I could get the Apple one?

Can’t disagree more.

Android has both better phones and better UX. Apple is usually lagging the Asian brands by years.

I went from a Pixel 3A to an iPhone 13 and just switched back to a Pixel 10 Pro and gosh the iPhone was a complete wreck. It’s even worse with their new UI.

Unless you are somehow stuck in the Apple ecosystem, I don’t understand why people pay more for it. The idea than the Android experience is somehow subpar when all Apple has done for the past five years is merely copying it is crazy to me.

Apple has Apple Silicon, designers of the most advanced ARM processors in the world. The latest iPhone is usually about twice as fast as the latest flagship from Google or Samsung. And that's not even factoring in the performance benefits of native-compiled, static-lifetime languages like Objective-C and Swift compared to Android's Java and Dalvik/ART based ecosystem.

Since Android 5 that ART uses AOT, and nowadays it is a mix of JIT and AOT with PGO metadata shared via PlayStore.

Additionally, Java and Kotlin are quite usable outside Android, instead of flourishing in a single vendor ecosystem.

Swift outside Apple ecosystem is as interesting as using Objective-C with GNUStep.

Typically, Android apps launch faster than iOS apps even on significantly slower hardware because Dalvik/ART is optimized for that, and iOS is not.

That’s non sense metric.

Nobody cares about how fast their phone cpu is. My iPhone 13 was significantly less performant than a top of the line modern Qualcomm CPU and never felt slow. Apple chips are also no more twice as fast as the competitions. The gap has been smaller for years.

If that’s all you have, you have basically nothing.

Only the experience matters and the iPhone UX is strictly inferior to the competition. Battery life is worse, camera is worse, screen is worse. So happy I switched and really regret ever trying buying one.

> Android has both better phones and better UX.

extreme, EXTREME minority opinion stated as fact

> when all Apple has done for the past five years is merely copying it

This is a popular refrain but never passes the sniff test. Android has nothing equivalent to AirPods, airdrop, find my, list goes on and on.

> Android has nothing equivalent to AirPods, airdrop, find my, list goes on and on.

Sony has a product which is considerably better than the AirPods and the Pixel Buds are competitive.

Google has an alternative to Find my which works the same and allows to use trackers from multiple brands, including some which are better than AirTag.

Android has a default feature called nearby share which works the same and has had sharing via WiFi for much longer than Apple including some options which are not annoyingly gimped proprietary technology.

It’s always the same issue with Apple fan. They are completely unaware of how far behind Apple is because they don’t want to even look outside.

AirPods → Google Pixel Buds, Samsung Galaxy Buds, OnePlus Buds (and similar)

AirDrop → Nearby Share (Google), Quick Share (Samsung)

Find My → Find My Device (Google)

Just for folks reading this and being unfamiliar with Apple's options, here are some of their capabilities that sets them apart in a UX way:

AirPods: can simultainiously be paired with iPhone, Apple Watch, iPad and Mac. The switching between the audio you hear is fully automated and generally "just works" using sensors on both the AirPods and your 'source device'. e.g. listen to audio from your mac, but get a call? You can 'just pick it up' without any Bluetooth hassling or switching.

AirDrop: the hardware Wifi chips in your device actually gets configured in a peer to peer mode that enables (very) high capacity transfers. Think of pushing multiple gigabytes. It does not require any configuration, the devices can figure it out themselves if nearby and unlocked. It also works between Mac's, iPads and iPhones.

Find My: It's not just for devices, you can share your location with family and friends, with reasonable control over things like 'for how long'. You can set alerts for leaving or arriving a particular location (Apple informs both parties of such geofencing). It also integrates with the workout app or navigation app, e.g. keeping folks updated on the ETA.

Virtually all descend brands support multiple pairing and fast switching nowadays. This is not a AirPods advantage. AirPods miserably fail at this as soon as you use them on anything non Apple.

Nearby Share works exactly the same than AirDrop with regards to pair to pair mode on supporting device. It also works on anything supporting one of its client which covers a lot of material.

Find my: Google has exactly the same functionality and has had it for years.

You are completely disconnected from the state of the art. Meanwhile it’s 2025 and iOS still can’t properly deal with notifications.

I have a bluetooth headset from 2017 right next to me that did just that, it could be paired and connect to obher devices.

Wifi direct. Apple didn't invent it. Android also does that. Also that's now also an optional part of the bluetooth spec (to use the wifi radio as well)

>You can 'just pick it up' without any Bluetooth hassling or switching.

I've done this on android/linux with random bluetooth earbuds. I'm sure apple is more reliable or whatever but this is not a unique feature to them.

Apple is not more reliable. Their fan boys are just convinced they somehow use magic while all they have is a pair of buds which can only properly work with one brand.

Multiple pairing and fast switching have worked correctly for ages on multiple brands but they are completely unaware.

Are all inferior products by a long shot, and also copies of Apple features…

The fact that you move the goalpost proves any discussion with fanboy is pointless, for you have made some brand part of your identity.

No goalpost was moved - I pointed out that you tried to present inferior products as having parity.

70% of the world kind of disagrees.

Android is cheap; it’s not hard to understand why they dominate in countries less affluent than the USA (everywhere else in the world)