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related post from few months ago: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/21819-impact-of-ongoing-war...

"We avoided specifying the country or war to avoid involving GrapheneOS in a debate on forced conscription in an existential defensive war."

I will follow their wishes and not specify the specific war or side, but this comment gives me all the information to figure it out.



> I will follow their wishes and not specify the specific war or side, but this comment gives me all the information to figure it out.

The primary goal of making it public was getting him diverted away from infantry to a role related to software engineering and/or security research. It makes little to send the lead developer of a security research and engineering project to launch grenades from a trench. We got in contact with high level people who were able to intervene after he completed 45 days of basic training. He had to do several weeks of menial tasks and was just recently transferred to a more sensible tech related role. We're still down our most important developer.

We deliberately made it obvious which country we were talking about without directly specifying it. A Russian opposition paper did the basic investigative journalism required to confirm what we implied:

https://meduza.io/feature/2025/04/22/veduschego-razrabotchik...

The way we approached it worked out well. It was an appeal to their military leadership based on it not being in their interest to use him as infantry, not a political statement. Ukraine forcibly conscripting men aged 25 through 60 to defend against an invader trying to wipe out their nationality is a messy topic. We had to publicly post about it to get help, that's all.


why they don't just said outright???

is that controversial??


To me it sounds like they perhaps broadly support the war and maybe even think conscription is necessary, but also are worried about their friend, so they want to post something without creating negative press for the country (i think this would probably most fit if the country in question was Ukraine).



There is no upside for them and their users, and lots of potential downside.


It also opens the door to possibly inconvenient discussions with speculations about Graphene's security (referring to both products and org) in relation to, say, Israel, its military, as well as its associated espionage and sabotage efforts (e. g. Pegasus).

The same swings the other way around, i. e. Graphene protecting its devs against any outside threats. Etc.


It has nothing to do with Israel.

See the response at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583672.


Hence "[...] in relation to, say, [...]". It was an example. And indeed, the possibility of Ukraine, or other nations for that matter, was already in discussion at that point.

Nonetheless, thanks for the details.


Are you OK? You don't sound OK.


In Ukraine, it is very dangerous to publicly say things that could be considered critical of the war. There is a real chance of arrest or disappearance by the security services.


You meant to say in Russia.


You can also get into serious trouble in Russia for opposing the war. But no, I meant exactly what I said. People who criticize the war effort in Ukraine are regularly disappeared.


Are there any public and verified stories about this? Not doubting you, just want to read more about it and not finding much that could be verified.


Prove it.


Fair chance that both are true. Ukraine's survival is dependent on a unified stance against the aggressor.



Afraid to trigger Russian bots? Afraid of backlash in Ukraine? Afraid to “pick a side” in the conflict?

Even though the guy is obviously on the right side of history, it might be problematic for project like Graphene to acknowledge it.



I mean, afaik there is only one country in the world that is at war and is using conscription (as opposed to reserve forces or voluntary paid contracts)



As far as i know, Russia mostly stopped using conscription for the ukraine war effort after popular discontent, and now mostly only uses conscripts internally, with most of the russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine being offered large sums of money to "volunteer".

I was initially assuming Israel was relying on reserves for the current war, which seems to be true, but it also sounds like being in the reserves is mandatory so i guess that is conscription with extra steps.

Anyways, i guess your broad point is right.


> Russia mostly stopped using conscription

Some draftees are made sign the contract not just with large sums of money but also force/torture. I am told it happens almost dsily and knowing a bit what russian army is like I think it is likely. Probably more likely if you are non-slavic guy from the regions and not a big city

This story is about a guy who was arrested for theft or something and was "offered" contract. Apparently cops get 100000 rub reward for one guy who they "convince". https://meduza.io/feature/2025/07/13/dozhd-18-letnego-dagest...



Sorry how is it related to russia forcing draftees into contract to be sent to frontlines again?


Our lead developer wasn't conscripted by Russia and I wanted to make sure that was clear to everyone.


Well OK but this argument is about narrative about russia "not using draftees in the war anymore". Not all comments on this page are about your developer.



I thought the existential question was the level of doublespeak. Does the country call it war?




I think both Koreas technically qualify. Even if it is cold war at this point.


Only one of those is fighting existential war.


All of those countries describe the wars in question to their own citizens as existential. It might be bullshit, but that doesn't really change the fact that people within each and every one of those countries may very well view them as existential.

That's basically war propaganda 101 - the war is defensive and existential.


Supposedly we’re talking about an actual existential threat, e.g. Russia occupying Ukraine.


What we're talking about is the GrapheneOS account claiming someone was conscripted, and claiming that it's an "existential and defensive" war. I assume this is basically true and that it's probably Ukraine or maybe Israel, but the way they're talking about how everyone is against them and sabotaging them makes me think we may not be dealing with a reliable narrator.

I assume that there's truth to what they're saying and that they probably were swatted, and that's awful. But it doesn't feel right to me. Being betrayed seems to be a consistent part of the narrative GrapheneOS presents about itself. It's even in the history section on their website.


> What we're talking about is the GrapheneOS account claiming someone was conscripted, and claiming that it's an "existential and defensive" war.

Our lead developer was conscripted.

> I assume this is basically true and that it's probably Ukraine or maybe Israel

We made it clear enough it was Ukraine and later publicly confirmed it multiple times once it wasn't going to cause any issues.

> but the way they're talking about how everyone is against them and sabotaging them makes me think we may not be dealing with a reliable narrator.

We've never said everyone is against us. You're misrepresenting our statements. You appear to be alluding to ongoing harassment which baselessly claims that I'm insane, delusional, schizophrenic, etc. Phrasing it the way you did doesn't absolve you of responsibility for participating in it.

> I assume that there's truth to what they're saying and that they probably were swatted, and that's awful.

What we've said about these topics is completely accurate and your attempt at misconstruing it and sowing doubt is wrong.

> But it doesn't feel right to me.

Okay, so you have unfounded theories based on vibes.

> Being betrayed seems to be a consistent part of the narrative GrapheneOS presents about itself. It's even in the history section on their website.

The information we've provided about these topics including about Copperhead's takeover attempt on the project in 2018 is accurate. Our lead developer being a Ukrainian man is easy enough to see from GitHub. They went from by far the most active developer to completely inactive after being forcibly conscripted at the start of April. They're now able to contribute a little bit in their free time again.


No, we're talking about things from the perspective of whomever made the post. We don't know this person's politics or what they believe. They may not be neutral. For that matter if they are somewhere like Russia they might have to worry about falling out a window if they describe something the wrong way.


The posts were made from our project account based on the consensus of our team. It was written and reviewed by multiple people prior to posting it. We made it obvious we were talking about Ukraine while not explicitly saying it to avoid involving GrapheneOS in the politics of the war and conscription to the extent possible. The final paragraph of what we posted was added later due to people wrongly speculating it was about Russia or Israel to make it clearer we were talking about Ukraine while also avoiding our posts being interpreted as being against Ukraine defending themselves.

See the response at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583672.



There are two that come two mind, but one has fairly short terms of duty of to balance these kinds of obligations.




Could be the Israeli army, considering the graphene logo may be a nod to the Star of David.


The logo is a nod to graphene.


And it was founded by a Canadian.


No, it's exactly graphene, which could (I didn't say is) be a nod to the Star of David.


If you have a clear and satisfying explanation in your mind about why a logo has 6-fold symmetry, and still suggest that it is secretly a star of David, I start to get worried about the direction the conversation will go. Even if that isn't how you meant it, there's an audience very willing to receive it that way and they make poor company. Let's keep things on the rails and not get the story flagged.


Thats absurd. There is no inherently positive or negative connotation to religious symbolism. It happens everywhere, in paintings, books, movies, logos. It's fine, and there's nothing wrong with it. If your mind goes to dark places then that's your problem. I prefer to cut off dialog when problems actually arise, rather than in anticipation of hallucinated problems, Mr. Green Name.


Fortunately not. They have said not Russian or Isra*li


it said "defensive"


Without expressing my opinion on the war in Gaza, supporters of Israel would probably describe it as "existential and defensive."

Pretty, pretty please, let's not debate whether or not this is the case and just acknowledge we can't rule Israel out.


It has nothing to do with Israel.

See the response at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583672.


For that matter, even Russia describes their war that way (not agreeing, just saying that they do in propaganda). We don't know the politics of the person posting, they may be patriotic to whatever country it is, just because they described the war that way, doesn't mean a neutral observer would agree.

I think the best argument against it being Israel, is that it appears to have happened suddenly and unexpectedly. News reporting makes it sound like the Israeli system is very predictable - people get conscripted at a specific age (even in peace time), and then afterwards serve in reserves, that might get called up. Ukraine on the other hand has a significant manpower problem and has been somewhat desperately trying to increase the conscription pool. Someone being unexpectedly caught up in conscription seems more likely in Ukraine's situation where the rules are being actively changed to get more recruits.


When we initially made it public, we avoided stating the country but it was heavily implied. The goal was getting help while explicitly avoiding taking a political stance on their use of conscription.

The final paragraph was added later after further internal discussion about how people were misinterpreting the country as being Russia or Israel. It was carefully worded to make it obvious which country we were referring to to almost everyone while also making it clear we weren't taking a stance against them defending themselves. It was meant to be very obvious after the addition of the final paragraph.

See the response at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583672.

> Someone being unexpectedly caught up in conscription seems more likely in Ukraine's situation where the rules are being actively changed to get more recruits.

It wasn't due to a change in rules. They've lowered the age range to 25 through 60 and people age into it but it wasn't either of those things.


Maybe Israel or Ukraine if they keep "regular communication". On Russian side friend is able to text like once every few weeks I think because of jamming and internet shutdown at the border.

And "diverting somebody away from combat" for this kinda reason sounds not like russian army.

And they saying it is "defensive existential war" is another thing, if this turns out to be Russia GrapheneOS would be on my personal blacklist forever


We made it obvious we were talking about Ukraine and have since explicitly confirmed it due to lack of further need to avoid specifying it.

See the response at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583672.


What was the need exactly?


He was originally assigned to an infantry role and we made it public in the first place with the goal of getting that changed. The primary audience for what we posted was Ukrainian military leadership. It was clear to Ukrainians we were talking about their country, which was all we needed. We did not want our post to be interpreted as a political statement against a Ukrainian policy. It would have been incredibly counterproductive. We also didn't want to attract unnecessary attention from pro-Putin people, but plenty showed up to troll on X and harass our team via email regardless.




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