I was fascinated by electricity, chemistry, firecrackers, rockets and hotrods as a boy. It is a miracle I survived. My dad told me that God looks out for little boys, as otherwise they would not make it to adulthood.
(This comment was unfairly flagged and I turned off the flags on it.)
What you say is often true and was even more often true in the past. If it was your experience, I'm sorry to hear it.
A friend of mine, one of the more brilliant people I've met, told me that her parents built her brother a workshop because "a boy needs a workshop". When she said she needed a workshop too, she was told she didn't. My sister had similar experiences. At the time, this was taken to be obvious.
Things have changed since then, but not completely, and not at the same rate everywhere.
Honest question, whats the value to this topic in discussing generalizations of gender expectations and gender roles?
For one woman in my family tree, her father explicitly give his daughter workshop skills because he viewed it as important skills to have, something she was very happy to receive and has continued to use through her 60 and ongoing life.
A other woman in this tree decided early in life that her primary goal in life was to find a husband and raise children. She did it, and later when the children became more independent, the husband requested that she went and got a job, which resulted in her getting a depression since she absolutely did not want to do that.
Two other anecdotes, in what would be equivalent to US middle/high school, my school let the students choose between woodwork and needlework. The result was ~30 girls + exactly 1 guy in needlework, and ~30 guys + exactly 1 girl in woodwork. Similar events happened at my next school when choosing between psychology and film study, with every student being of the same gender except for one (me personally being that odd one in that case).
I do not see this changing with time, but rather seems to get worse. As the gender equality paradox illustrate, the tendency for stereotypical gender roles and cultural pressure to enforce gender roles tend to get stronger with more gender equality. More recent studies also points towards higher class status as being in a positive correlation in upholding stereotypical gender roles.
It's true that the subthread was a generic tangent and in that sense off-topic, but that arguably started with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42997899, not the reply. It's also true that the subthread got a bit testier and flamier as it went along, which was disappointing. I've detached it from the original root now (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43017762).
If someone wants to talk about boys, it's fair for others to talk about girls. The reply (to me at least) seemed motivated by personal feeling and personal experience rather than ideological battle, so I thought the flags were unfair. People should be free to exchange their personal feelings and experiences here, as long as they don't attack others.
Free to exchange their personal feelings and experiences is good. I fully agree with that.
What is fair or not fair thankfully not up to me. I am fairly colored by my personal experience, especially with one family member that seemingly blended their view of gender roles with their self identity, and an other who seemingly feels the whole deal to be very restrictive and was greatly helped by a parent who choose to go outside the normal expectations in that regard. To me that makes the ideological battle feel like both sides are quite wrong. People generally also describe it as old people that enforces gender roles while young people are trying to escape it, which is also completely opposite in my personal experience.
If I could wish for something in this kind of discussion, it would be the minimization of generalizations. Comments like all girls get treated like X, or all boys get treated like Y, only seem to be simplifications that aim to put a lid on anyone with a different personal experience.
Dare I say it, and I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've never in my life had a women show any interest in my various hotrods over the years. They sure attracted the attention of boys and men, though. They'd want to see the engine, want to know what modifications were done, etc. The women, would just turn away. I don't know any women who took a car apart to see how it worked. None who build electronic circuits for fun. None who filled trash bags with hydrogen gas. None who hung out in the machine shop and begged the shop foreman to show them how to use those machines. None with gas powered model airplanes. And so on.
And yes, I'm sure there are exceptions. Nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with men and women having different interests.
I'm sorry for what happened to your sister and friend. That was unfair.
Note that my original comment was about difference in how doing something irresponsible is treated - in one situation it is a cool thing and in another proof of stupidity. And dang comment was literally about someone interested who was told no. I have never seen "she is cool because of risking blowup story" with a girl protagonist. It was always she is dumb.
I was personally told that plane kids club is boys only. And like, it took courage to ask in the first place, because I did felt I will stick out. And I have seen boys being pushed into technical clubs whether they want it or not. None of that has anything to do with expectations on responsibility or how mistakes are treated.
In reply to yours, boys doing stupid things are called out for being stupid. They aren't praised for doing things that could blow their hands off or burn the house down. The only ones impressed are their peers.
> In reply to yours, boys doing stupid things are called out for being stupid. They aren't praised for doing things that could blow their hands off or burn the house down. The only ones impressed are their peers.
I mean, this is not true and I have seen that both online and in reality. It is literally in peoples comments. Even in the comment I responded to you dont see them go "this was stupid" and moving to cut the occasion out. If whatever op did was not approved, he simply would not had access to materials. You can prevent a kid from doing dangerous things with "electricity, chemistry, firecrackers and rockets" easily - you just refuse to buy firecrackers if they refuse to deal with them responsibly. And parents frequently do - including boys parents.
The fathers comment was affirming, the irresponsible act is not a proof you would be dumb, it is proof you are right kind of a boy.
My evidence is when boys know they do bad things, they try to hide it. Also, I was punished when caught doing these things.
I've never heard of a parent encouraging their boy to play with fire or explosives. My dad went to great lengths to try to stop me from that. I even built a flamethrower once (he didn't know about that!). Weirdly, my interest in such things evaporated when I was 16 or so, and have had no interest in it since. Maybe it was because I got my hands on a Mustang!!
I once acquired several vacuum tube TVs from a repair shop. I had a lot of fun tinkering with them until my mom got rid of them, as she was sure I would be electrocuted. I shocked myself a few times which is funny in retrospect but not at the time.
My dad taught me how to use tools, but only under close supervision until he was sure I wasn't going to stab myself in the eye.
I concealed a lot from my parents and the authorities. I didn't have any illusions I'd be celebrated for that stuff.
People may celebrate it in comments when the danger is long past, sure. But that's something different.
> You can prevent a kid from doing dangerous things with "electricity, chemistry, firecrackers and rockets" easily - you just refuse to buy firecrackers if they refuse to deal with them responsibly.
My dad's great disappointment in me was I hated baseball in all its forms.
My obsessive interest in electricity, chemistry, firecrackers, and rockets was what led me to study engineering at Caltech. My fellow students there were the same type of boy as me. If I was beginning my career today, I'd be sleeping on the doorstep of SpaceX until they hired me.
I've never met a single man who took a car apart just to see how it worked, not even my father who worked as a generator mechanic and later a car mechanic.
Nor one younger than said father (mid-50s) who built circuits for fun -- and he's the only one!
Nor one who filled trash bags with hydrogen gas.
Nor one who even used model airplanes in any format. Nor one who flew drones, either.
And so on, and so on.
I'm sure there are rare exceptions, like you, who've done everything you've personally done. I'd honestly love to see a video or photo of some cars you've fully disassembled; I do maintenance on my volkswagen, and even just changing out the timing belt was quite time consuming!
But seriously, what's the point of your comment? Even separate from if there is some implicit and totally comprehensive difference of interests, I can't discern its relevance to the posts you replied to, especially not in context of stories that sum up to something like "yeah, i did try, and I got socially rejected at multiple stages of early development."
One time my Cub Scout den mother showed us how to make an electric motor with large nails, copper wire, tin cut from a tin can, wood, and fasteners. Hooking it up to a dry cell caused it to spin merrily.
I then wondered what would happen if I plugged it into the wall socket.
It buzzed violently for a few seconds and then burst into flames. I learned what AC current was that day.
I think I was 8 at the time.
Yes, I have been shocked by 110VAC many times. (It's the basis of my superpowers.)
