Politically and diplomatically, it could be argued Hamas have been considerably strengthened. They certainly think so.
It seems to me that Israel's overall position - politically, diplomatically, and in terms of physical security - has become much worse since the October 7 attack and it has been their own actions that are responsible for the change. A different response should have seen them politically and diplomatically strengthened.
I understand the emotive reasons for not doing so, but I think most people would consider that Israel has bungled their response to October 7.
I would call this attack on Gaza a total failure. If nothing else a failure of humanity.
It's looking more and more like the 'winners' in this situation are Hamas and the losers are the Israeli government, the US government, and the Israeli and Palestinian people.
> Politically and diplomatically, it could be argued Hamas have been considerably strengthened. They certainly think so.
That's delusional. Hamas’ operational capabilities have been highly diminished. Their leadership is in exile. It looks increasingly likely that their ground forces will be destroyed. While they've found sympathy among the Arab population, it's notable that not a single government--outside Iran--has offered to materially support them. And even Iran is starting to be constrained in its regional capabilities.
Abraham accords being scuppered, Houthis applying international pressure on their behalf, and most importantly multiple big cases brought against Israel at the ICJ. Not to mention the considerable loss of standing Israel has suffered amongst regular people in just about any country you care to name.
Compare this to the situation prior to October 7.
With regard to your belief that it looks like Hamas ground forces will be destroyed, I doubt this very much. All indications are that this is not happening. Every area that Israel claims to have 'cleared' they are having to return to. Israel claims to have killed some 9000 Hamas militants, but with fatalities of around 32,000 in Gaza so far this would mean almost every one of those fatalities that was not a woman or child was a militant. That's beyond unlikely.
This attack on Gaza will be wound back long before Hamas is eradicated (and this includes the militant wing). When that happens Hamas will emerge in a better position than prior to October 7 and Israel will be in a worse position.
Hamas' stated objective of exposing Israel is being achieved. The Israeli government has been extremely naive and short sighted in this regard.
> Houthis applying international pressure on their behalf
Right. This is the best support Hamas could muster. Unguided pot shots. That’s the point. Nobody real put anything at risk except a proxy force in Yemen.
> attack on Gaza will be wound back long before Hamas is eradicated (and this includes the militant wing)
Doubtful but plausible. That doesn’t bring back the military infrastructure. They’re highly degraded, from the loss of their tunnels to operational supremacy. It’s also naive to imagine Israel isn’t placing surveillance infrastructure that will take Gazans decades to debug.
> Israeli government has been extremely naive and short sighted
Agree. But it doesn’t look like Hamas will win anything. They’ll get a minor PR win, maybe even an ICJ ruling, and their delegates will complain comfortably from Doha for the rest of their careers. But their days as a relevant fighting force appear numbered, though as you say, that’s not a given.
> Hamas' stated objective of exposing Israel
Winning sympathy while losing ground, infrastructure and fighting forces is a terrible trade. (It’s also one virtually everyone who loses a war gets as a consolation prize.)
> Winning sympathy while losing ground, infrastructure and fighting forces is a terrible trade.
Terrible trade with respect to what objective? Hamas never had the capability to defeat Israel in a conventional war. Their infrastructure and fighting forces were a means to a political and ideological end. They are closer to achieving those ends now than before October 7th.
Israel's high-tech export economy, the US diplomatic shield at the UN, and diplomatic alignment and domestic stability in Egypt and other Arab states are things that Israel needs for its long-term survival, and this war is undermining those things. Israel is in a position of strength now, but there may come a day where one of their neighbors surpasses them economically given significantly larger population sizes. Sort of a China vs Japan situation. That will be the real threat. Hamas is a blip in the bigger picture.
That said, this meme that "you can't defeat Hamas because it's an idea" is definitely false. Hamas are not just an idea, they are a government and a military, and just like with Russia's invasion of Grozny (another immortal "idea"), they can be defeated militarily, at great cost to innocent civilians.
> infrastructure and fighting forces were a means to a political and ideological end. They are closer to achieving those ends now than before October 7th
We are further from a Palestinian state, much less one run by Hamas, than before. I don’t see what desirBle ends Hamas has brought closer.
People have always complained about Israel. There is more complaining now. That’s not a qualitative difference. On the other side, Gaza appears to be heading towards no government or some form of occupation, whether by Israel or a coalition including Arab states. Its civil infrastructure and economy are wrecked; an entire generation has likely already suffered permanent health debilitation. One has to be incredibly rosy and chart a course forward entirely separate from the history of modern conflicts to paint a picture in which Hamas, let alone the Palestinian people, come out of this ahead of where they were in September.
We are further from peaceful coexistence and a two-state solution, but Hamas don't want that. They are, in my loosely held opinion, slightly closer to their actual revisionist objective, which is the annihilation of Israel. The sequence of events that causes this outcome are black swans, that have now increased in likelihood. For example, Sisi's regime being toppled in a populist uprising, leading to a situation where you have a Hamas-but-way-bigger regime that didn't have to exist. Or Gen Z and Gen Alpha's political influence in the US removing the diplomatic shield at the UN opening the way for sanctions, which inhibits Israel's ability to import key materials that power their defense industry. The relevant timescale is decades, where broad demographic trends dominate outcomes. Alliances of the moment and economic dominance are both fickle and change with the sands of time.
I will agree with you that there is a path forward where you are correct. Maybe Israel repeats what Russia did in Grozny. Hamas is defeated. Gaza is then rebuilt. Tensions then go down. It's possible.
> hey are, in my loosely held opinion, slightly closer to their actual revisionist objective, which is the annihilation of Israel
Agree. But we're closer to a two-state solution than the destruction of Israel.
> Gen Z and Gen Alpha's political influence in the US removing the diplomatic shield at the UN opening the way for sanctions
You're describing a political turning point decades away. And it doesn't lead to the destruction of Israel, just weakening its occupation. Also, Israel is a rich and vibrant economy. It wouldn't take that much for it to pivot to another security guarantor if the U.S. ditches it in 30+ years (when the relevant generations will be at the peak of their power).
> Hamas is defeated. Gaza is then rebuilt.
If Hamas is defeated fast, maybe. But again, Gaza would be rebuilt under occupation. And Israel wouldn't have been destroyed. Hamas--and the Palestinians' bargaining position--is weaker today than it was in September. Israel is, too. But not in as permanent a way as Gaza (and Hamas) are being dealt.
I'm not sure Hamas has anything left to win. Gaza is in ruins. If things go on the way they are for very much longer, there won't even be left any Palestinians in Gaza, only Hamas in its tunnels. The lords of the underground... buried under the rubble. That's not a vision of victory.
It seems to me that Israel's overall position - politically, diplomatically, and in terms of physical security - has become much worse since the October 7 attack and it has been their own actions that are responsible for the change. A different response should have seen them politically and diplomatically strengthened.
I understand the emotive reasons for not doing so, but I think most people would consider that Israel has bungled their response to October 7.
I would call this attack on Gaza a total failure. If nothing else a failure of humanity.
It's looking more and more like the 'winners' in this situation are Hamas and the losers are the Israeli government, the US government, and the Israeli and Palestinian people.