It's great to argue for Vue/Svelte, but just to clarify - the entire point about HTML/CSS isn't really true, there's no difference in support between React or any other framework there.
And disagree on HTML/CSS skill loss being a thing, or being proximately caused by React. And no it doesn't have any div-soup causative effect either.
I get that templates are simpler for non-coders. Unfortunately, in all but the simplest cases the cost-benefit is towards the React model as you are just "using the platform" to build your views - ie, JS and not some arbitrary DSL.
How can you say there is no difference? What do you think Vue and Svelte SFCs are? Where does React have built-in component style scoping? Where does React have automatic passing of classes and properties to components? Can I write SCSS in a React JS file and have it just work? Nope.
The platform is more than just JS, and React has plenty of stuff going on that is "magic" enough to be no different for me than the abstraction of a DSL. How is the cost-benefit better for React when I keep seeing developers who actually try other frameworks have their minds blown at how much easier it is to do the same things?
The CSS skill loss is very real, particularly with the number of straight-to-React bootcamps that barely touch on it and the insistence on using CSS-in-JS which makes it way harder for people to explore a production website and learn the fun way. I'm not some HTML/CSS purist, and React was a big step forward for the industry, but now its time is past and we have way better alternatives.
No one believes the gospel of syntax, simplicity, and inline styles more than me [0]. I made that before Svelte was a thing and the Vue creator actually asked if he could borrow multiple ideas from that as he was making it.
But idk what React codebases you've been in, the bog-standard, overwhelmingly popular bootstraps and guides since way before Svelte ever existed had some pretty nice style solutions and at the minimum importing CSS.
React has some of the most gorgeous style solutions around (I should know having built the best one) and has since forever ago. Svelte is less popular than many React starter kits with I'd argue much nicer DX.
CSS needed drastic changing too, and I think if you looked on average total CSS knowledge is higher than ever, you're just seeing frontend become popular and wide, different types of sub-specialties at this point.
> React has some of the most gorgeous style solutions around
Can you give an example?
> But idk what React codebases you've been in, the bog-standard, overwhelmingly popular bootstraps and guides since way before Svelte ever existed had some pretty nice style solutions and at the minimum importing CSS.
Vast majority use Styled Components or another flavor of CSS-in-JS that continues the problem of making it harder for HTML/CSS experts to contribute to a JS-only codebase. Tamagui is exactly the issue I'm talking about. It's great for JS/React first devs, but doesn't actually do that much that a good HTML/CSS developer couldn't do without all this added tooling and with much easier to read clean code for people unfamiliar with the framework.
> I think if you looked on average total CSS knowledge is higher than ever,
Definitely not my experience. There are some great CSS devs out there, but it is always secondary to the skillsets that are actually highly paid (JS, React) and they mostly end up in large companies by happenstance of those companies hiring more people. Smaller tech companies make the consistent mistake of not hiring front-of-the-front-end devs and end up with poor UI and experiences because of it.
Tamagui is explicitly React Native and Web focused so yea you don’t learn CSS as directly, but that’s the point as there’s no CSS on native. It’s not really relevant since Svelte doesn’t do native (big downside and shows why maybe CSS extremism is not helpful).
And disagree on HTML/CSS skill loss being a thing, or being proximately caused by React. And no it doesn't have any div-soup causative effect either.
I get that templates are simpler for non-coders. Unfortunately, in all but the simplest cases the cost-benefit is towards the React model as you are just "using the platform" to build your views - ie, JS and not some arbitrary DSL.