Ukrainian Nazis, while still ultra-right-wing and probably not nice people, trace their ideological lineage to WW2 Nazis not by believing in Hitler's vision (which would be dumb, Slavs were supposed to be genocided to make living space for more Germans) but because the Nazis treated (some of) Ukrainians better than the Soviets (some of the time). So they wear Nazi symbols but don't necessarily subscribe to clean race and taking over the world "for us better people" and genociding everyone else. Even the craziest Ukrainian Nazi is probably not looking to invade Poland and replace Poles with "superior Ukrainians".
Meanwhile the Russian Z's are running aggressive war, consider themselves superior culture and want to take over most of Europe. They are doing war crimes left and right and their stated goal is a genocide of Ukraine (see "Ukraine is not a country, Ukrainians aren't people" statements from Putin) and rule of Europe.
Genocide is of something Russians are fond of doing pretty often, see Holodomor and mass deportations and Russification for "more hard" and "softer" approaches. Oh and they're doing those things again right this moment - kidnapping people to Russia and attacking Ukrainian food stores and targeting fucking maternity wards of hospitals.
So you could argue that despite swastikas on clothes, the Russians are "the true Nazis" here. What makes a Nazi, symbols or genocidal aggressive war backed by ideology of racial superiority?
Normally, I'd say fuck all Nazis, but I can give a lot of leeway to people fighting to protect their homeland from genocidal murderous raping horde. Especially as repeating "but there are Ukrainian Nazis!" only helps Russia, and why the fuck would you want to help Russia?
> Especially as repeating "but there are Ukrainian Nazis!" only helps Russia, and why the fuck would you want to help Russia?
It's a fact. Saying "but stating the fact only helps the enemy!" doesn't change that it's a fact. You're suggesting we subscribe to a falsehood because you think the truth rhetorically helps the enemy.
So in order, nazism apology and inversion of the truth. I suggest you gather more evidence about the behavior and origin of Ukrainian Nazis, and the supposedly "genocidal murderous raping horde" that you call Russia.
I'm curious to know how you would adjectivize the US though. With north of 300,000 civlians killed just during the post 9/11 wars. Aren't they genocidal as well? Aren't they behaving like a fucking gang?
Let's skip the milions of slaughtered civilians in the last 50 years, beucase I don't even have an adjective that is offensive enough to describe such atrocities.
You know that we don't "conquer" cities, like Russia is doing, we just carpet bomb them and destroy and kill everything in it in a matter of a day?
> why the fuck would you want to help Russia?
Why the fuck would you want to help NATO? It's a gang of genocidal murderers. I don't want to help anyone to be fair, just to be objective.
Watch today's videos from Bucha, where Russian forces murdered who knows how many civilians just for fun. Some were shot while tied up. Some were tortured.
And you sit here and play whataboutist game and complain about NATO? About "Nazi"? Make up "millions murdered by NATO" and lie about carpet bombing and whatever nonsense?
Seeing as the west and Ukraine knowingly used tons of videogame footage and pushed it on us as real war footage, or used footage from Ukrainian soldiers and called them Russian if they do something ugly.
They lied knowingly to us several times, why trust them now?
I will just wait for the real information to come out, for the real war crimes investigations to finish. We will know then who was the war criminal.
> Seeing as the west and Ukraine knowingly used tons of videogame footage and pushed it on us as real war footage, or used footage from Ukrainian soldiers and called them Russian if they do something ugly.
Oh yes, yes, I'm sure they have.
> I will just wait for the real information to come out, for the real war crimes investigations to finish. We will know then who was the war criminal.
And if it wasn't for the NATO you hate so much, those same Russians would be doing this to you and your people, maybe for generations already.
I'm done here.
I have just one last word of advice. I'm sure your views are fine in Italy, but keep them to yourself in Eastern Europe or other places where people have personal experience with Russia. Saying what you're saying out loud around people who lost friends and family to Russia would get you hurt.
So your last argument is some whataboutism, where you share more fake news from the same media that used videogame footage to push their narrative? Go ahead, your choice.
Ukrainian Nazis, while still ultra-right-wing and probably not nice people, trace their ideological lineage to WW2 Nazis not by believing in Hitler's vision (which would be dumb, Slavs were supposed to be genocided to make living space for more Germans) but because the Nazis treated (some of) Ukrainians better than the Soviets (some of the time). So they wear Nazi symbols but don't necessarily subscribe to clean race and taking over the world "for us better people" and genociding everyone else. Even the craziest Ukrainian Nazi is probably not looking to invade Poland and replace Poles with "superior Ukrainians".
Meanwhile the Russian Z's are running aggressive war, consider themselves superior culture and want to take over most of Europe. They are doing war crimes left and right and their stated goal is a genocide of Ukraine (see "Ukraine is not a country, Ukrainians aren't people" statements from Putin) and rule of Europe.
Genocide is of something Russians are fond of doing pretty often, see Holodomor and mass deportations and Russification for "more hard" and "softer" approaches. Oh and they're doing those things again right this moment - kidnapping people to Russia and attacking Ukrainian food stores and targeting fucking maternity wards of hospitals.
So you could argue that despite swastikas on clothes, the Russians are "the true Nazis" here. What makes a Nazi, symbols or genocidal aggressive war backed by ideology of racial superiority?
Normally, I'd say fuck all Nazis, but I can give a lot of leeway to people fighting to protect their homeland from genocidal murderous raping horde. Especially as repeating "but there are Ukrainian Nazis!" only helps Russia, and why the fuck would you want to help Russia?