I feel dumber now knowing this discussion exists. They're just making up terms and arbitrarily applying them to people based on their personal opinions and perception. How is this a thing? This exactly why I have nothing to do with 'tech Twitter'.
You are getting hermetic when you are trying to use degenerate man-o-sphere vocabulary and pretend you are doing it to explain instead of obscure things.
I say have a sense of humor and study the dog pill theory and you will never go on a walk and see somebody walking a dog and see it the same way you did before ever again.
I'd think some seriousness should be applied to people where some non-techies put all their money in and don't even remotely understand it.
In normal situations they would reference someone like Vitalik.
I'm not sure where the humor should be applied to this "shit show". I've seen to many people lose a lot of money that were unable to listen to a reasonable counter argument.
To a point that i couldn't convince someone that" One coin" was a scam, because it's a family friend that convinced them.
Like it or not terminology from the man-o-sphere is going to get normalized. It's astonishing how the term "simp" has exploded since 2019 (e.g. "Don't be a simp for Aella")
If the culture can confront the challenge of the incel it will develop the tools that can really face problems like systemic racism, women getting paid less in the workplace where it is easy to say people have "rights" but it is another thing to mobilize resources to realize them.
Barring that we will spend the next 30 years going in circles, George Floyd will be forgotten just like people forgot Rodney King, the Watts Riots, how prominent black men such as Booker T. Washington felt mistreated by the cops, etc. A new generation will come across the same problems, look at it ahistorically, and despair about the possibility for change.
> If the culture can confront the challenge of the incel
We could teach incels not to rape. That would be a start. Then they might start to relate better to women, stop hating them so much and after a while they wouldn't have to be "incels" anymore.
Do you even know what an incel is? I think you and the other poster definitly have different ideas of what the word means. Originally the word had a different meaning than the one it holds nowadays, and as far I remember the "original" online forum was even started by a women, and was in general a sort of self-help group for social outcasts.
These kind of ignorants comments add nothing to the discussion, it should be clear that the person you replied to is talking about what the original meaning of the word is and not what you are painting it to be.
That's a non-sequitur. If they were rapists they wouldn't be celibate anymore, they'd be criminals.
You can propagandize them that rape is wrong, most of them believe that anyway. It's not going to make any difference in how they relate to women, hate them or not.
Many young men are growing up completely alienated. It starts out with broken homes and absent fathers and then the exclusion of men from early childhood education, which teaches young boys that education is a girl thing. Even if a boy gets good role models most of them believe social change is happening so rapidly that they've got nothing to learn from those role models.
100% of guys who are doing online dating are interested in meeting either for a hookup or a relationship. A large fraction of women know they can get hundreds of matches with little effort and feel so much validation from that they ghost them all. 20% of the guys get 80% of the matches, many guys get absolutely nothing.
Many people seem to think that men are invulnerable and only women get hurt by these negative social trends, but when "pornography hurts women" it's because a man was watching pornography, was hurt by pornography and passed on the damage. My son lost his best friend, Scientology disconnection style, because his friend fell under the spell of this loser
It's not about "propagandizing them that rape is wrong". It's about freeing them from their entitlement complex around sex/relationships with women, and telling them how to actually become more overtly appealing to them. Online dating is a non-starter because it doesn't let men show off their positive qualities and attitudes, apart from those shallowest most 'Chad'-like ones that incels always love to complain about so much. That's why women largely shun that environment; getting "hundreds of matches" is virtually worthless to them when they know so little about what their typical match is like, and that very environment largely attracts low-quality folks.
You could call that a "bad social trend", but it's also a symptom of how clueless and self-entitled many males are. The fact that this might be due to a lack of good role models doesn't dispense with the need to address this issue. Doing so will hopefully let these folks integrate the understanding that "of course rape is wrong" within their worldview without suffering from cognitive dissonance, or thinking that it's plainly impossible to successfully relate to women unless you happen to meet some unreal "Chad" stereotype.
You seem to understand the mission. "Clueless" is a valid adjective to use but any form of "entitled" is a hateful term that rolls off the tongue easily and ends dialog almost as quickly when it is heard. Also ‘rape’ has nothing to do with it and it’s a harmful selfish meme that some people can’t mention ‘males’ without bringing up ‘rape’.
Getting through the "clueless" problem seems nearly intractable. If you could tell people "make this small change and it will make a small improvement in your situation" there would be a clear answer, but you can't.
There's a persistent myth of "male privilege" that applies to the top 1% percent of men but not the majority of men. That's a major theoretical error that's obvious in 1st wave feminist books such as The Second Sex, The Feminine Mystique and it goes uncorrected to this day.
For someone who was bullied in elementary school, sexual invisibility in high school and college was a retraumatization that still affects me more than 30 years later. Back then I felt completely isolated, it wasn't a pain that others my age would admit to, and adults had bad advice like "be yourself" or "it will get better in the sweet by-and-by." Today young men are finding solidarity in dangerous social movements and various forms of "men are beasts" will just isolate them further.
It's a valid description of an attitude which is often quite overtly held, and is ultimately a lot more damaging to the "incel" themself than anyone they might want to interact with. Using a term as strong as "hateful" in this context seems like a thought-terminating-cliche which does little to address the problem.
> If you could tell people "make this small change and it will make a small improvement in your situation" there would be a clear answer, but you can't.
Why not? There are plenty of feasible approaches; the main problem is that there's no structured, widely-supported effort to collectively raise awareness about their potential benefits. The education system has a valid role to play here.
Wordcel is a fantastic bit of slang I was unaware of until now. Very apt descriptor of the pseudo-intellectuals parading around on social media and broadcast news.
Substantive conversation, or dialogue seems to be harder to come by as time goes on.
