In the early 90s, in Saudi Arabia, there were two national tv channels. Channel 1 and Channel 2.
During the month of Ramadan, right after we break our fast, we would run to the tv room and tune in to channel 2. A spotlight would frame a door and the announcer would go, "...ladies and gentlemen, Bob Saget!" He would walk in with his signature suit and greet the crowd. America's funniest home video was one of the few American shows that ran on Saudi TV. Right after, they played Full House. So many memories.
Many Muslims will stop for a moment today and make a grateful prayer for Bob Saget.
I love the idea of a whole population having this shared experience, whatever the reason might be. There’s an unwritten sense of community there.
Similarly, growing up in the 80s in India, there was basically one channel and a similar shared sense of community. Everyone remembers certain ads, certain shows, theme songs, certain hosts. Everyone’s Sunday morning routine was watching certain shows.
Maybe it’s mostly nostalgia but there is that sense of shared experience that we lack now.
I’ve read the same from Zeynep Tufekci about a belly dance performance that used to happen every Xmas in Turkey.
I had the incredible experience to speak with him a few weeks ago and be a quick guest on one of his podcasts where he speaks with random fans who send him their number. I spoke with him on a whim, mostly because my wife adored Full House growing up and I thought it would be a neat surprise for her if he called while she was with me. And as luck would have it she was not home when he called.
We spoke for 7 minutes or so and he was just so damn pleasant and likable. I think we're hardwired to assume the worst about celebrity egos. But he just came across as an affable dude you could have a beer with.
A few weeks ago he was a vibrant voice on the other end of the line and now he's gone. Absolutely surreal.
I wasn’t particularly fond of Saget, but I know that Norm Macdonald (a man I did deeply respect) held him in the highest regard and thus I have this sort of laundered respect for him. Isn’t it curious when you don’t look up to a man “directly”, but find admiration for him through someone who you do admire?
Edit/addendum: I suppose it is kind of like when you’re parent loves a certain musician, movie, comic, etc. You may not find them too entertaining, but you always tip your hat to them due to your parent’s respect.
I think in this particular case it's because many people's first impression of him was as the dad on a cheesy sitcom or as the cheesy host on a family-friendly funny video show. It's not like we had YouTube clips of his edgy stand-up stuff back then, so he kind of got pigeonholed as almost but not quite funny.
I understand that effect well, though I know no name for it, and I've never heard another person mention it before now. Kind of odd given how prevailing it seems. How it shapes our senses.
Since this is the first time I've heard it described, and since it seems like an important artifact of human cognition, I propose we call this the "Scop Effect" (unless of course it already has some other name or definition elsewhere).
> According to this theory, when two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people do all in their power to change them until they become consistent. [0]
In this case, OP didn’t like Saget but admired Macdonald — who DID like Saget. OP resolved this conflict by admiring Saget as well.
This is more than a chain of reputability. Someone you hold in esteem confers some of your feelings for them onto their preferences.
A parent likes a certain band. A lover likes a certain restaurant. A deceased person you respected held high opinions of someone you weren't necessarily fond of, but that you're now willing to overlook or reconsider.
Steve hoffstetter also has some very kind words about him. His post was how I even found out. But you could tell he had a very good relationship and it was very sincere
I won't speculate on his death, only say it's very unexpected to me in that he didn't come across as the drug or alcoholic type, at least in recent times. Seemed like a pretty healthy guy with a sharp mind.
> Earlier today, deputies were called to the Ritz-Carlton Orlando, Grande Lakes for a call about an unresponsive man in a hotel room. The man was identified as Robert Saget & pronounced deceased on scene. Detectives found no signs of foul play or drug use in this case.
Thanks, that's great to read. In case my comment was taken the wrong way, I didn't mean to imply he OD'd or anything, I meant to imply that he didn't seem to be one that would OD, and 65 is relatively young to go unexpectedly. Shocked me!
Well if your only experience with the movie was on Comedy Central you might remember it as "Did you ever suck _toe_ for weed?". Comedy Central with the hilariously bad filler lines.
Another classic being the line from Kill Bill: "My names Buck, and I like to [cue robotic, out of cadence word]_party_"
I don't know what happened in this particular case, but cocaine use can cause hidden cardiac damage. Heart attacks in relatively young people often have prior cocaine use as a contributing factor.
When I read of someone dying prematurely, I actually find it reassuring if the person OD'd -- it's an identifiable cause that I can avoid in my life. Seeing people drop dead for no apparent reason causes me more anxiety!
I can see the flip side though, that it having been preventable makes it more tragic.
I tend to think, perhaps unfairly, of most drug abuse as someone suffering in some way. So I guess I'm glad in that based on that and his lasts posts, he seemed genuinely happy.
People usually take solace in a situation like this that there was no way to prevent it. If he had been doing a lot of drugs, the questions of "could/should someone have stoped him" would complicate people's emotions.
As evidenced by the great curiosity of this community, apparently people are expected to just be alive indefinitely for their personal amusement rather than those individuals’ desires. Welp.
I empathize with your point of view. Try to remember that you’re here to entertain HN readers, not the other way around. It helps dull the edge — at least it did for me.
Being right and being substantive are two different things. You have to drape your contrarian viewpoint in the right sort of clothing. Otherwise no one ends up happy, and no one learns anything, which is approximately the worst outcome.
“Chill; it doesn’t matter as much as it feels like it matters” is an alternative viewpoint, if that helps. Though if I heard it from someone, I suppose I’d just feel upset.
Let’s put it this way. If you don’t want to amuse the community, you should lurk. I was salty about that for a long time before I just accepted it and moved on. And it’s not so bad. Being an entertainer is fun, and I was surprised to have some skill in that department.
But you won’t discover something like that if you let a few downvotes shake your temperament. Take solace in being right. Most people are wrong most of the time, so it’s no small thing.
I walked into a comment that expressed my feelings as invalid before I even participated. I am cool with that most of the time but I’m still going to express my feelings some of the time too. I really appreciate the kindness of your response but I don’t really care about being right. I care about some expressions being welcome as part of a conversation and challenges to those being unwelcome, under the guise of “curiosity”.
This is an interesting take, because from my perspective, you entered this subthread by agreeing with the demand that someone else needed to provide an explanation for his or her feelings about the nature of the death.
All I can say is that I feel like I went through a similar struggle, and ultimately had to accept that HN now consists of millions of people. Just from a logical standpoint, it's not realistic to expect that all viewpoints will be welcomed by all people, no matter how they're expressed.
If you game it out, the outcome is that either we all get along with each other, or the place burns down. You might think that's hyperbole, but HN walks a delicate tightrope -- pretty much zero social networks from 2001 stayed relevant in 2021. So it'd be very possible to blink twice and wake up a decade later and wonder "Where did HN go?" That, more than any other, is the defining struggle of the community; particularly as it continues to grow.
The problem with expressing my feelings was that I pretty much always did it because it felt good, rather than because I was trying to help someone else. Eventually I came to realize that this was both selfish and unproductive, so I tried to change habits. And I still fall back into the old ways sometimes, though the last couple years have been a marked improvement.
Ask yourself: What benefit is there from expressing your feelings?
I hate to phrase it like that, but it was an uncomfortable truth that I was always reluctant to face. Perhaps you know of a benefit that I overlooked. If so, I'd appreciate hearing it.
Ultimately I just had to stomach the fact that if I wanted to participate, I'd need to face "the community" as it is: a collection of people looking to pass the time and amuse themselves. It's nothing more and nothing less.
The implications of that pretty much shattered my existing worldview, because I had to face the fact that no, the community isn't here to find some sort of enlightened viewpoint, and no, no one is going to care about me personally. Which meant that if I acted in selfish ways, no one would gain a thing -- all it would do is upset people to varying degrees. Particularly myself.
I ended up happier by caring less about myself and more about the people I was talking to. I don't know if it would work for others. But you seemed sad that the community was letting you down, as I once felt, so I wanted to at least try to reframe the problem as a matter of perspective.
I see you've been around HN since 2008. For what it's worth, so have I. It's really hard to let go of the old community. But we have no choice; we now live awash in an ocean of people, and those original ~5,000 commenters in 2008 may as well be tiny islands. We're still here as individuals. But if you're hoping "the community" is going to feel this way or that way, well... That path only ended with a sort of bitterness that I was happy to leave behind. Perhaps you'll find a different way out.
Sorry, per the comment I was still responding to, it still doesn’t “clear it up” for me. The presumption was then that what works for them should work for me. The clarification did not clarify it for me. They had the expectation, not me.
I think it's a mistake to hear someone say "that's great" and infer from it that they have an expectation that you also think it's great. It's clearly a personal feeling about the situation, not an expectation of you.
Well, it’s not unfair to suspect OD. That’s almost always what “unresponsive in a hotel room” means.
We all know this, now the question to me is are the police under any obligation to tell the truth about these things? If there was a pile of fentanyl laced fentanyl under him, they don’t have to say one way or another right?
I remember when Trevor Moore died (rip) the cause was so hush it was weirdly suspicious for lack of detail. If iirc it was to the effect of “found dead in his lawn”, the family controlled the messaging and the police said nothing at all.
Depends how you're speculative. From the guidelines:
"Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."
And basically every reply at the level of the GP was speculation. The post was a bit crass but certainly parallel to the others speculating about a cause of death.
That’s false. Speculation helps to communicate to those who don’t yet know, from life experience, that many “found unresponsive” deaths are actually OD/suicide/suicide-by-bender.
I make a point of assuming any deaths I don't know the cause of were strokes. It can happen at any age, and it keeps me from speculating about something more lurid.
Stroke/heart attack is still one of the top 3 killers in the US, and most people look for alternative explanations first, which makes little sense to me.
I dunno, Saget seemed like the type who'd suck a dick for some coke.
Seriously though, incredibly filthy comedian, but no, I can't recall any substance abuse stories about Saget. This might be a random stroke/aneurysm. That's how Grant Imahara died. That shit is completely random.
I've noticed recently a number of celebrity death stories pointedly don't explain the deaths. Is this pure coincidence, or is this a kind of deliberate practice?
I think the news just gets out faster. Back in the day the news didn't break until the took the body away and did their initial investigation and at least had a suspected cause of death.
Now you have the Sherrif tweeting from the hotel room while staring at the just found body.
There have been several study findings already that showed a measurable increase in heart attacks and aneurisms post COVID. Presumably due to clotting and other damage caused by the virus.
There is also some increase in those due to vaccine, but I'm not sure if it would be statistically enough to even register.
That clearly comes from his role of Full House, his comedy has been the same (ever pre-Full House) to be pretty dirty, everyone knows him as America's Dad.
That's the first place I went after reading the news. I also discovered that (not sure if true) the Tourette's Guy won a scratch off ticket for 250k and then became a hoarder.
His recent podcast series called Bob Saget's Here For You is worth a listen, as a reminder of what we've lost. He really was deserving of the title America's Dad. RIP.
The Aristocrats is my favorite comedy documentary -- not that there are many of them. Saget gives the most memorable performance of the show. He's truly gifted as a filthy standup comedian. If you only know him from Full House, this movie shows what he can do when the filters are off.
Oh shit. RIP. I've just been rewatching How I Met Your Mother and I can never forget Bob's voice as older Ted. I was disappointed they didn't use him for the final episode.
The thing about the comedy business is that even if the comedians aren't necessarily politically aligned, they usually have a certain amount of base respect for each other because of how grueling it is to make it big and sustain success in that business. I know that Saget was very well respected in the industry among people whose opinions would matter to regular people.
Saget was particularly talented because his mind and his comedy act could not be more different from the father he played on Full House or the goof he played on America's Funniest Home Videos.
Seriously, go watch some of his shows. You will be absolutely SHOCKED at what Danny Tanner said.
Isn't it sad there's an assumption that if people aren't politically aligned, they don't respect each other?
I have many friends and family members who are not aligned with my political views at all. I'd never let politics get in the way of that. After all, what is accomplished by avoiding someone because you don't agree with their views?
Is it? We are reaching a point where one particular political alignment is basically interested in setting us back pre-1950's in terms of rights and liberties. Hard to remain respectful of anyone who subscribes to that.
Are you talking about economical or social rights and liberties? Because one party would like to remove or reduce the latter, while the other party the former.
I think you are responding to a caricature. It's not much different from one side saying, "one particular political alignment is basically interested in creating a socialist nanny state."
Do you know anyone on a deep, personal level that is of a different political alignment? To the OP's point, retreating to a bubble of people that only agree with you is one way to help such a caricatured outlook can take hold.
It's one thing to not be aligned, it's another to be aligned oppositely.
I find it draining to spend time with my in laws who support Trump but can't actually explain why (probably because they don't want to sound like humongous bigots).
They assert "please don't talk politics around us or our family we don't like it" but make politically charged statements from time to time. If anything even slightly resembling confrontation occurs, like asking someone where they heard something, the matriarch on the other side is likely to cry.
I have friends and family who are aligned oppositely.
Personally, I view political debate as an intellectual sport, like chess. It's fun to match swords with someone, and see who has the better game. Winning/losing at this, like winning/losing at chess, football, Magic The Gathering, etc., means nothing.
For those who are unable to not take losing personally, it's best to just avoid talking politics with them.
It's the same with religion. If you've got family & friends of different faiths, does that concern you?
Not to speak poorly of someone who died but anyone who watched his stand up comedy or listened to him on 'shock jock' radio would never call him "America's Dad". He got off on being the total opposite of his image on TV and being a 'wild and crazy' foul mouthed. drug using type of person.
He was never required to live life in a way consistent with a character he played on television. He didn’t “get off” on anything. He had a brand of comedy that he enjoyed and his audience enjoyed it too. That brand didn’t play well for mainstream television, but then again it’s a paying job.
By most accounts I’ve ever come across over the years, he was respected and liked by peers.
Certainly some compassion at the moment of his death would be welcome, if you have the capacity for that kind of thing.
I remember watching his rendition of the "Aristocrats" bit and thinking the same thing. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aristocrats for anyone that's not familiar with the setup)
Am I the only one thinking how my dad had a pretty sketchy sense of humor in close company and a very professional persona for the public? To me he epitomizes the America’s Dad nickname for exactly this reason
He has several standup specials. Among recurring themes:
- References to his role in Full House/AFHV (they made him wealthy)
- References to his role in Full House (having sex with a younger cast member)
- References to his role in Full House (cheap shots at the other adult cast members)
- Generally high-shock-value sexual references/innuendo
- Various self deprecating jokes mainly of a sexual deviancy nature
- A not-surprising-in-hindsight large amount of musical bits
- A general not so subtle hint that this, too, is all a facade and that while you may be appalled or interested in this other side of him it’s just as insincere
And if all of that makes it sound banal: it is, and it isn’t. It’s very predictable humor you could imagine coming from a “how to reboot squeaky clean image as surprisingly dirty and dark”, and it’s also very well delivered and more thoughtful than you might expect.
I’ll give an example, with apologies to Dang as it’s pretty raunchy.
I remember some comedian woman saying that Bob Saget’s favorite birthday present for women were ultra slim tampons. He’d say “put this prominently in your bathroom that way men will think you’re really tight.”
I’m… probably more uptight than most people about respectful humor. And while I wouldn’t say this is totally in the clear, and I don’t have full recall of the joke, it’s certainly one that could be delivered with respect. And at least to my mind it defaults to “punching up”, in this case the butt of the joke being foolish men who would draw that conclusion in the first place.
It’s been several years since I’ve watched any of his comedy specials, but even when he got really … over the top … I think there was usually at least some hint or signal that he was generally making fun of the grotesque in his own mind and not fully excusing it.
It would never occur to me to consider whether a joke from a standup comic is or isn't sufficiently respectful of a group, is or isn't accepting of something unacceptable.
That's like questioning whether the comedian really did have that conversation with his neighbor at the bus stop he mentioned in the set-up before the punchline.
A standup joke doesn't need to be respectful, it only needs to be funny.
My attitude is if it’s funny I laugh at it, whether offensive or not. However I recognize in this day and age there is a certain sort that will be offended. I caveat for no other reason than to acknowledge that I am aware of all the downvotes I am going to get…and don’t care.
So brave! But seriously, how can you post so confidently that funny is somehow objective and that you get it when others don’t? That in itself is a joke, so we’ll-played, I guess?
Of course humor is objective. Do you think honestly it isn’t? Pretty sure there is no “universal humor truth” out there.
Also not sure what’s brave about posting about laughing about something possibly controversial when you don’t care about the consequences. I don’t care if I am down or up voted on anything I post. My self worth is not tied to any social scoring system.
Probably neither... they were both for the audience. The 'America's Dad' thing came mostly from his stint on the show Full House in the 80's and 90's. However, his standup could get hilariously filthy and was as anti-'America's Dad' as one could imagine. I doubt it was a drug thing, he just had two different audiences he played to and did it well.
In fairness, this wasn't his joke or even meant to be funny... it's kind of a comedian test of sorts re: delivery. But you wanted to know how filthy he could get...
I've heard the Aristocrats joke before (mainly Gilbert Gottfried's version), but I was wondering if Saget had any routines where he would come off as more, for lack of better phrasing, "impassionatley and authentically vulgar". Reciting a hand-me-down joke just doesn't strike me as that. I'm of the opinion that even Tom Hanks has had an opportunity to recite the Aristocrats in front of an audience and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a tape of that somewhere in the world.
Fair enough... most haven't. Pretty much any of his standup/specials (i.e. the stuff he didn't do for network TV) will have a fair amount. For example, I started doing a YouTube search on 'bob sagat' and it offered to complete it as 'bob sagat stand up nasty' so I figured 'sure' and this was near the top: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjGm5DNDadU and of course he didn't need to club you over the head with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLazfBlUkfk
During the month of Ramadan, right after we break our fast, we would run to the tv room and tune in to channel 2. A spotlight would frame a door and the announcer would go, "...ladies and gentlemen, Bob Saget!" He would walk in with his signature suit and greet the crowd. America's funniest home video was one of the few American shows that ran on Saudi TV. Right after, they played Full House. So many memories.
Many Muslims will stop for a moment today and make a grateful prayer for Bob Saget.
Rest in Peace.