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A sense of empathy with my friend's suffering would compel me to visit them. It's not part of a quid pro quo transaction.


Look, I'm a "hobby philosopher", so I hope you'll forgive me when I say that you are wrong. Does your sense of empathy extend to random people on the street? 'Yeah, sometimes' you say. Okay, but it has bounds right? You don't help every single guy with all your power. So what are these bounds? They are the result of give+take, which you can call "quid pro quo" transaction or not, however way you feel most comfortable.


I only answer as another "hobby philosopher", so please take it in that spirit :) I would argue that just by the fact that you know someone, and know them to be a "decent" person, you'd feel empathy (depending on your personality type also). Part of the reason you don't go "all out" for everyone, is because thankfully you don't "know" everyone.

I really think boiling it down to a simple "give-take" relationship is oversimplifying the dynamics. It goes far beyond that.

A person may visit someone who is sick out of religious convictions, or because being generous makes them feel good, same reason you have many people who volunteer or help push someone's stalled car on the road. Others may be do so to simply pay it forward, maybe to help cultivate a relationship, or with unspoken expectations of the favor being returned had the tables been turned. Yet, others might just be doing it because they have something to gain from the sick/dying person or somehow feel bound/compelled to do so... I personally would value visiting a friend who it sick and does not have a lot of family/friends to care for them vs one who has a lot of people to care for them, I'd probably leave the latter alone until they recover, or contact a close family member to avail myself should the need arise.


The reason you don't go "all out" for everyone (or at least the reason I don't go "all out" for everyone) is that you have finite resources and time. There're lots of people that I wish I was a better friend to, but there're only so many hours in a week, and I already have a fairly active social life and a demanding job, and so time and mental energy spent keeping up with them is time that's diverted from keeping up with other people.

It's the same reason that fewer people are willing to take on more "demanding" friendships. That time spent caring for a sick friend is time that can't be spent hanging out with other friends. Some people will do it anyway, either out of a sense of duty or because that particular friendship meant a lot to them before their friend got sick. But we don't often see these people, because all the energy they invest in their sick friend is energy not being spent hanging out with us.


Oh yes, life is not so easy! Analogy: If my doctor told me that the human body is easy to understand, I'd look for the door :)

For sake of getting anywhere in an argument, I try to abstract things down a lot but at the same time keeping them valid for discussion. I felt that the addition of things like cultural bias would only detract from the message that everything boils down to give+take, (and pertaining to this particular discussing: that friends only go so far until there is nothing to take anymore.)

Why? Because cultural bias, upbringing and personal choice are things that merely move the give+take 'thresholds'. What I mean, is that you'll still get something out of everything you do. In my opinion, people always act in their own interest, even though their interest may largely be in favor of others.

An extreme example to illustrate the point that everything is give+take: Take for example Warren Buffet donating billions of dollars: You could say that this has hardly any "take" for him. But why do it if there was no take at all for him? I mean no take at all. Not even a passing feeling of pride or accomplishment. You will see that, yes of course, he will have some kind of reward for donating these immense amounts of money. There is always a take :)


Lots of people are nice to others because they enjoy being a good person. I know my American friends would have been over, cooking me meals and making sure I didn't go stircrazy, and trying to cheer me up. I know because I've experienced it. They volunteered to be up at crazy hours so I could text them when I was having surgery and feeling bad... in Austria. They sent me funny pictures and videos, even physical goodies, to cheer me up from over the ocean. I've had American friends volunteer to take me to the emergency room at midnight on a work night, and stay with me the whole time, even though it was 5am and clear I was not in any danger and I told them they should leave. And then two other friends pretended to be angry that I didn't call THEM in the middle of the night to let them know what was going on. I said, "You'd really want me to wake you up?" and they said "YES!"

Why? Because they love me and they're good people. I love them, too.

Austrians make terrible friends, in my experience, because they think like you.

They are so terrified of "losing" something by being connected to people -- so absolutely horrified at the idea that they might be "taken advantage of" -- they they shut themselves down and make no serious connections at all, living a life with only fairweather friends and no one they can truly trust to stand by them.

It's really incredibly sad.


You truly learned nothing from this exchange. These are simply two different cultures and you grew up in yours, and therefore you think only yours is valid. How mature is that?

Likewise I could claim Americans are terrible friends, because they get upset about the tiniest things, are constantly in your face, wasting time with trivialities and use laughter inflationary as a social tool instead of its actual meaning.

But I don't, because that would be childish. Instead I view them as quirky, lively people who embrace the whole world as their home (in a positively, naive way) Your implicit claim that Austria is 'worse' than America is merely a kneejerk reaction to a different culture. You are even equating your personal definition of "nice" with being a good person, insinuating Austrians aren't good people.

Grow up, different people are different.


It could also be a result of habit through upbringing. Or cultural pressure. Or perhaps a faulty sense of reasoning. As a hobbiest philosopher you should know the dangers of sticking to one line of reasoning slavishly.


Yes, upbringing and cultural pressure move the boundaries but the underlying rules are the same: No person would tolerate always giving for long.




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