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I am rubbish at small talk. For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring. As such, all jobs I've had as a permanent employee, I've found myself completely stymied when it came to career progression, despite always having very good performance reviews. It very clear to me, that the people who float to the top of organisations, don't do it via their work performance, but by slapping each other on the back whilst sharing a pint or two down the pub.


It seems to me that you're undervaluing the value and importance of social and emotional connection with other people when it comes to getting work done effectively in an organization. Companies are like any other groups of people, and leaders -- i.e., people who "float to the top" -- need to be able to understand and motivate people, be widely liked and respected, command respect and authority from the company at large, as well as other managers and the higher ups.

Dismissing this critical skill as "slapping each other on the back" and contrasting it to "work performance" shows that you may be dismissing a key skillset that is necessary to move up, if that is something you want to do.


I used to think much like you do. But as I’ve moved into leadership positions I’ve changed my view entirely. That sharing a pint or two is important. To be able to coordinate a group of people to reach a goal, soft skills are absolutely vital. Humans aren’t machines - hacking humans is a different skill, and being good at it is rarer than good engineers imo. That’s why it pays well, and why you’ll never progress far beyond IC without it.


IC?


Individual Contributor I believe, ie someone who doesn’t have direct reports


I used to think similarly but I found that both "other people" and "small talk" can be rather interesting if you approach them with a bit of an anthropological pov: Everyone is interesting if you dig just a bit (and I don't mean that in a hippy way but actually). You can make into your own game, to see if/how fast you can stir the conversation in an interesting direction. And even simple small talk is interesting because if you pay attention to the subtexts, you can see the "real" person peaking out.

At least that what I try to do.


I do like people and I'm fine with office chit-chat, but my major problem is I can't really steer conversations toward anything with any real depth in most situations unless I'm talking to people who like to debate or talk deeply about ideas.

And even then, I find myself sitting there learning about the intricacies of different automobile designs, which while better than small talk, can still be kind of boring.


Work performance in mid to top management positions is tied mainly to leadership and social traits. It means close to nothing if your hard skills are the best if the job requires mostly soft skills.


Yes, my point exactly. You said it better though ;)


`For one I'm not really that interested in other people, and secondly I find it really boring`

I am totally with you on both points. The important thing to realize is that it is uninteresting and boring, but that is not the point. It is a skill like many others, if you want the benefits it brings, you have to learn it through practice and however else you normally learn skills


"Act as if others are interesting and you will eventually find them so." - Sarah Mei, quoted by Sandi Metz, when summarizing I believe Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends & Influence People"

Sandi's talk was called "You Are Insufficiently Persuasive" and she talks a good bit about this idea, starting with that the unhappiness of programmers primarily comes from other people, and that if only we could make them behave the way we want them to act, we would all be much happier. This is one of those Sandi talks I've listened to a few times more than once, and I recommend watching it all the way through, if this is an interesting idea for you.

But to spoil it just a bit, after the major arc of the talk it is suggested that the way to get people to act better is to first change your own behavior, and that it's also often helpful to question whether your way is actually right.

I haven't actually watched this particular talk in a while, so I'm interested to see if others who did have a different interpretation, and whether you think I got it right.


Hmm, this sounds a bit naive. I'm struggling with this for my entire life, and only a certain amount of alcohol helps me to do chit chat. But after the chit chat I always regret some things I've said, the whole thing is just rubbish. I simply don't like it to be forced to talk shit. I'm quite certain it's not a learned skill, it is pretty default for the most stupid people around us.


Concluding that something is not a learned skill because it comes easy to some is illogical. Human upbringing consist of a lot of social interaction (at least when done right), it is only fair that some people actually get good at it.

Anyway, I should probably have disclaimed my first comment more loudly: it's anecdotal. For me smalltalk is absolutely a learned skill. I used to suck at it, now I can get by, and it took a lot of conscious effort on my part. YMMV


The people who at the top of the organization generally manage other people.

No offence, but if you're not interested in people, or at least in learning to fake it, how do you expect to manage them?


I never said I wanted to manage people. I was merely making an observation. In the past, I have been a senior people manager, and hated it.

What I wanted was to progress my career based on my skillset. However, without 'people skills' it's impossible to progress in any large organisation.

These days, I stick to contracting. Zero people skills required, and I can avoid all the office bullsh*t without issue.


It's really sad how people care much more about how you flap your gums at them than what you can do for them. Who cares if your pipes are burst, let's talk about it rather than actually fixing the damn thing! Who cares if it's dark, let's talk about light bulbs rather than install some!


It seems like such a rude thing to feel, but I too struggle with actually taking interest in what my coworkers think. Is this what happens when you begin to see a different generation enter the workforce? I'm not too much older but I'm not their age, so the divide seems to be forming ever so slowly.


Two important capabilities of managers and leaders are communication and influence. Having a drink at the pub, or just making smalltalk on a regular basis, support both of those. It's easier to influence someone who trusts you, and who you know well.

Senior management look for communicators and influencers when deciding whom to promote. A solid performer they have talked to, have seen interacting with others, and know a thing or two about is more likely to get the nod.


I feel most of the hard problems from an organizational perspective just involve getting people on the same page.

The engineer who few people know or trust but is always "right" isn't going to effect change. The one who can talk to Jane in accounting and convince her that this change is going to be better for everyone, because they have a good work relationship and she trusts him, is going to be able to put their plans into action.




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