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Very interesting !

Funny thing, in France we do use "up" and "down" but with a different set of axis. They don't represent north and south.

If you're in Lille (north of Paris), you'd say "I'm going up to Paris" although you'd be going south. If you're in Paris and you're going to Lille, you'd say "I'm going down to Lille" although you'd be going north. But if you're going to Lyon from Paris, you'd say "I'm going down to Lyon" and you would be going south.

In French you go "up" to the capital (or more generally to a larger city than you're currently in), and you go down from the capital (or more generally to a smaller city than the one you're currently in).

So you'd say from Paris "I'm going down to Lyon" or "I'm going down to Grenoble" and from Lyon you'd say "I'm going down to Grenoble" or "I'm going up to Paris". (And you instantly know that Paris is the largest city of the 3 and Grenoble the smallest ^^ so from Grenoble you go "up to Lyon" and "up to Paris").

I learned that fairly old because I didn't live in France until later in my childhood but I always found this linguistic kinda funny :)

Descendons donc en province, disent-ils a Paris !



In Japan there is a similar phenomenon. Trains going to the capital (or other urban center) use the word 'going up' (上り) and trains going away from the capital use the 'going down' (下り). This is so well used that signs and station announcements use the words too. It's not just a colloquialism.


It's established early railway lingo in the UK. I'm not sure how common it is in casual non-railway usage, but apparently stations have up- and down platforms and staff might refer to the 7.50 'up' train.


This is just called "inbound" and "outbound" for Boston.

It is a bit confusing because there is two stops in the city that are as far in as you can go so you can't label the directions this way from there, and you the definition of in and out flips after you pass there.


In the UK, up and down are terms used by the railways. The up line generally heads towards a big city (London for much of the UK), and down heads away. Seems like this is the case in some other countries too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_directions

To some extent the terminology has crept into general use. I grew up just north of London, but we always went up to London.


French here: I'd never learned formally about this rule, I was just used to hearing the expression with a vague sense of what it meant; I often say I go down to Paris from the countryside thinking about elevation (bassin parisien) and with a sense of “going down” on the town. But then again I also say « monter sur Paris » some of the time like everybody.


One BIG thing worth noting is Texas, almost formally, redefines the cardinal directions [1], so it's even harder to parse what up/down/out/over are.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JREkqCvLzSo


Native French speaker here. I can confirm. "Going up to" (monter sur) refers to somewhere central while "going down to" (descendre sur) refers to a peripheral location.


So it's not related to the direction the rivers flow?


Native French here too, except I use "à" more often than "sur".


Same in the UK, it's always "going up to London". Maybe it's a subconscious status thing?


Hmm, it's not always 'up to London'. I've lived in a lot of different places and the ups downs and across's are almost universally linked to geography.

Anywhere south of the M4 tends to say 'up to London'.

Anywhere within about 1 hour drive tends to use the geographic position interchangeably with 'into London', with increasing use of the latter the closer you get to the city. This is also affected by commuter popularity and transport links. Cambridge seems to use 'into' more than its location would suggest for instance.

Those in the West like Bristol or Wales tend to use 'across'.

Birmingham is kind of the middle ground but from about Sheffield up its almost universally 'down' in my experience.

Having lived in Scotland it mostly just 'to', nothing about up down or across. You really feel the distance up there.


As someone who lives in Bristol I'd always say over for London, up for Birmingham, over for Cardiff and down for Exeter.




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