Product Manager here. The answer is because we are tied to the ESR release cycle we have to release at a certain time (we are working on changing this). So we're shipping all the work that is done and stable. There is still work to be done to the front-end and as much as people want to trivialize it, it's not so simple. To make the changes we did, we had to rewrite a very complicated front-end with some code that has been there for 20 years and had entire systems built upon it. We are going to get to what the mockup showed. But we're going to build it right, and that means rewriting large pieces of our codebase. We'll ship the remaining stuff when they are ready.
Thunderbird Product Manager here. We have no intention to replace the backend or most of the components. It will not be a different app. It's still run by the K-9 project maintainer. The difference? We didn't want to see K-9 die because of a lack of funding, and our visions were aligned - so it made sense to work together. That's it. Thunderbird is community run (unlike Firefox, our community representatives approve our team's budget and goals), so our aims are just to provide for our users and community what they want. And they want to use email on their phones as well as desktop.
The way you present it sounds devious. But we're just truly trying to work together in the open source ecosystem the best we can and put our resources to their best use.
This is great. I am glad K9 will live on. I didn't think it wouldn't anyway because frankly K9 is established software and Thunderbird doesn't seem to have anything in that space. It wouldn't make sense to kill it and redo it. This is not Microsoft after all, which would take the product and cripple it so much that it has one third the features and the Microsoft name.
However this particular deal sounds a lot like white labeling, don't you think ? :)
Hi Ryan, nice seeing you here. If you don't mind, would love to hear your thoughts:
I’m missing a story about mobile Linux. Has this been discussed; is this something on the roadmap?
There are already excellent e-mail options for iOS. Right now there is almost nothing outside of the cli that’s usable on mobile Linux. Thunderbird would have a chance of being the main choice while helping adoption of mobile Linux in the medium-to long-term.
I understand it’s not realistic to expect anything anytime soon, but I do hope this is being discussed and that we will see a strategy for it.
Have you tried Geary on mobile Linux? I haven't (no pinephone or similar), so I'm sincerely asking. It works well in a very narrow window on desktop Linux, so that seems hopeful? I wonder if it's excessively memory hungry or syncs mail inefficiently, though.
If anyone wants a free pinephone + will use it for something useful (and is prepared to pay the postage from Melbourne, Australia), then they're welcome to mine.
I bought one a few months ago to support the project but never ended up using it. It's still sitting in a drawer.
Realistically, there's no hope I'll ever do anything with it myself. ;)
Sounds great, if no takers yet! I’ve been meaning to do some PostMarketOS dev and it’s one of the primary supported devices. I’m at the other end of the world though, so if someone closer is interested that’d make more sense! Mail is in profile.
It's the most viable and promising so far I think. I have too many directories for it to be usable without some new features, though (namely highlight dirs with new mail and more filtering capabilities). It's practically unusable, but granted I may have an unusual setup. If you just have a handful of active folders it might be great.
Didn't notice any surprising syncing issues so far.
If anyone is getting a sense of deja vu, it's because this is was Outlook mobile strategy. Microsoft acquired a popular third-party Exchange mail client for iOS/Android, named Acompli, and rebranded it to Outlook.
>We have no intention to replace the backend or most of the components.
So sayeth every acquiring company about the acquired. I can think of very few that it held true. Maybe this can be added to the list, but only time will tell. I wouldn't suggest people holding their breath though
>These aren't companies. It's a communty project and a FOSS project merging resources.
Exactly how other situations historically have started. Lot's of FOSS projects "brought into the fold" to "shepard" along only to not get the resources promised.
Just take care that K-9 development doesn't get bogged down in well meant feature ports/unifications that end up being negative value for anyone who isn't fully committed to running their entire life through Thunderbird and K-9, in the most synchronized way. For example the not really in scope but also not really out of scope nature of calendar in Thunderbird should better not spread to K-9 I think (as someone who has never used K-9, but is on Thunderbird since Communicator 4). But if you succeed avoiding that pitfall, if it's really just "we would love to do something on mobile, but we would hate to steal attention from K-9", then it's certainly just applaudable lack of NIH, nice!
Thanks to both you and KMail team. This merger makes tons of sense as both clients made it through some dark years and have both come out on top with amazing improvements. I'm really excited to see what the combined team delivers!
So if it won't change, what is the point of this? I get that Thunderbird (Mozilla corp) wants a mobile client, but if its just the same horrible app with a rebrand, what does it actually offer (since desktop thunderbird is still pretty awful and recently has got to the point where gmail is preferable)?
> It will not be a different app. It's still run by the K-9 project maintainer. The difference? We didn't want to see K-9 die because of a lack of funding, and our visions were aligned
Nothing in this world is purely altruistic. If it didn't make business sense, this wouldn't be happening. Please surprise me and stay true to your word on this.
> The way you present it sounds devious. But we're just truly trying to work together in the open source ecosystem the best we can and put our resources to their best use.
We are all from the internet here, you know exactly why we are this way. Even if true, please understand why your words are perceived this way.
What business sense do you have in mind? Thunderbird is funded by donations and governed by volunteers. Even if this were some kind of money grab, who's grabbing what money?
Isn't the business reason that they would rather acquire an existing mail app that is similar to what they had in mind rather than building a brand new one themselves?
Longtime Hackernews lurker, first time posting a project of my own here. I'm big into privacy, I am the Community Manager for Mozilla Thunderbird and before that I made the open source personal assistant Mycroft AI and worked at Linux computer seller System76.
When I went to use a personal finance app to aggregate my financial data (bank accounts, investment accounts, loans, etc) into one place - I just didn't feel comfortable with my data just sitting on someones server, especially when many of the apps I tried were startups with which I had little trust.
So I made Glance Money, it end-to-end encrypts your financial data on your device with a key generated there. It's also just awesome and allows you to quickly manage your finances "at a Glance". You can see balances, a transaction list, you can edit transactions, and even swipe through them via cards (Tinder style) via what I call the "Review Screen".
Yes, it uses Plaid to get your data, which means they have access to your data. Currently I don't have a way around that. Fortunately, they don't sell your data - but I have yet to solve for this piece of the equation.
What do you think HN? It's still very early days but would love for folks to try it and share what they think.
Firefox is under Mozilla Corporation, which is owned by Mozilla Foundation.
Thunderbird will now be under MZLA Corporation, which is owned by Mozilla Foundation.
Why not put it pack in Mozilla Corporation? Because Mozilla Corporation has tried to jettison it a few times for not aligning with their goals, I guess?
There's no continuing option to give to the Foundation and direct support to Thunderbird? Since the new subsidiary is for-profit, direct donations will no longer be tax-deductible.
Feels like an odd choice (and perhaps, an important omission?) when the announcement calls out the importance of donations to Thunderbird.
You'd be donating to a nonprofit and getting the tax benefit, then the nonprofit would be passing it onto a for-profit corporation. End result: tax-deductible donation to a for-profit corp. That doesn't sound like something the IRS would like.
It sounds like the ability to directly generate revenue was seen as outweighing the benefit of allowing tax-deductible donations. (This is my own speculation.)
Consider it this way: if a non-profit pays a for-profit company for services rendered (pure expense on the balance sheet), are they "passing on" your donation to the for-profit? I would think not. Non-profits need to be able to pay for things. At the most basic office-management level, they would need to rent office space, buy paper and coffee filters, contract a janitorial service, etc.
Would there be a limit? I don't think so. If I was running, say, a non-profit website host, 100% of my raised donations would be going, as expenses, to a for-profit company (some commercial cloud-hosting provider.) That's still an entirely-legitimate model for a non-profit to operate under.
