Back in the old days, you could sit down at a table in the hackcenter and do stuff that was more of the exploratory pentesting kind. Because everyone around you understood. Because there were strict "no-photos" policies in place. Because all people were technical and in it primarily for the technical challenge.
Nowadays you cannot do that anymore, because most visitors are non-technical. Nobody respects the photo policy. Everyone judges your actions through their political lens. Instead all the "action" happens elsewhere and CCC became much more about social stuff, talking and politics. And of course about policing and judging other peoples' politics.
I'm not just referring to the talks, but the whole event. But we used to have groups like wikileaks heavily featured, they certainly weren't worried about too many eyeballs.
this wasn't the point ... the point is that the whole thing is getting more and more political and less technical and fun.
I was at the camp and some congresses in the past and they where always fun but nowadays it seems like it's like a political movement event for certain strands and ideologies and way less fun and interesting things (thou there are gems) and it seems that you have to think a certain way or at least accept certain positions even if it's not your position because otherwise you are silly or something else.
IMHO, CCC is completely defanged as a political institution. They went along with contact tracing because the local app was open source and somewhat secure and many of the regulars in local spaces people will cause lots of drama if you don't wear a mask in 2025.
Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals. If that's what you're looking for, great, I'm not judging, it just doesn't click with me. I used to visit hackerpaces during my travels but regardless of how open and kind I approach a new place, once they ask me to mask up or inquire for my pronouns things just don't end well, even if I'm really polite in explaining my position. That's not the tolerance and open mindedness I encountered around 2009 during my first C3.
Still, I wish everyone attending the best of times. There's so many people there that I imagine you'll be able to find the right folks if you're there and look around.
Not looking for a debate or inciting hate towards anyone here.
Culture changes. Hacker culture in Europe changed too, young people are moving up and taking positions in local organizations. You didn't change with it, and you're not open to accepting that change, so you are feeling out of place - that's simply how this works.
A lot of those people will feel welcomed and will be treated with respect that they don't usually get everywhere else. They decided to embrace that, it comes at a cost - like you feeling weirded out and not showing up - but they're probably fine with that being your problem to figure out.
I've moved on, all good, change is perfectly fine. I just think they lost something that made CCC special. Got my own decentralized trusted circles now. I think I made it quite clear that I wish anyone still attending these events and spaces all the best regardless.
CCC always has been explicit far left/green, looking at its history, as other people in here have mentioned.
I think it would be fair to say that the club as a whole has become more open about that, I think that's more owed to a lot of folks driving initiatives feeling like the walls are closing in on them though and I can't exactly fault them for that :)
I can fully relate ... back in the days there wasn't much (at least I don't remember) of "this kind" of ppl and everything was just hacking. However I can imagine what you mean.
At the end this growing craziness does not change any time soon so you are right ... "finding the folks that fit you" is maybe the best advice (and this hasn't to be the CCC).
Fortunately the interesting talks are often recorded so nobody has to attend who don't want in order to get the interesting stuff.
I really do appreciate your willingness to live and let live. Too many people from all perspectives are missing that ability when it comes to non-critical things, and forget that they can just… not hang out with the people they disagree with.
The other comments below you seem to be willingly ignoring that you did the mature/kind thing and just wished them well and moved on, whereas a less mature person would have caused a ruckus.
No problem. And FWIW, I’m what I’d consider a highly left-wing person. I only say that to give a sample that not all of us are like that. But I recognize that the loud ones get the attention.
I draw the line on live-and-let live only when the other person’s ideology poses a physical threat to me or my liberties, or those of other folks. But what you describe is how things ought to be - if you don’t feel like hanging around leftists, who the hell cares? I probably wouldn’t want to hang out in a highly conservative space, but I also don’t care if they hang out without me.
Yeah, it's really not wierd that people thinking that using secure technologies, firewalls and privacy to defend against infections on their electronics would also strongly support using a firewall to defend themselves from disease in the physical space.
The fact that your opinion usually comes together with other incompatible political opinions of folks that's been running those spaces for decades doesn't help either.
They didn't change. You however became something they always despised.
>it's really not wierd that people thinking that using secure technologies, firewalls and privacy to defend against infections on their electronics would also strongly support using a firewall to defend themselves from disease in the physical space
On the other hand, there is a discongruency when people who are against control and surveillance start implementing control and surveillance because the particular purpose sanctified the means. Something that previously seemed non-negotiable, culturally fundamental even, was toppled.
> using secure technologies, firewalls and privacy to defend against infections on their electronics
Why not use secure technologies, firewalls and privacy to defend against infections in general?
Isn't it also clear who benefits from this decreased trust in politics, or the apathy in politics? It is always the same group: the far right authoritarians.
You just gave the best example of how these interactions usually play out. You know basically nothing about me and yet you assume to know exactly "what I've become" and that I deserve to be "despised" based on 2 statements that don't tell you anything about me because I never explained my positions in depth.
I spent more than a decade in and around 2-3 local hackerspaces and some of the best practices and infrastructure I introduced/built are still in place. You really know nothing about me to arrive at this conclusion, thereby proving my point that the culture has shifted - not me.
> Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals.
So what? You’re not being asked or expected to feel empathy - just show tolerance. Which is the easiest virtue to develop - just ignore behavior which doesn’t threaten you.
If someone is doing their own thing - wearing a MAGA hat, a rainbow t-shirt or carrying a fluffy toy - it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Why does it bother you unless they’re getting in your face?
What is "so what" supposed to mean that isn't covered already by the exact sentence afterwards? Why even come at me with "tolerance" when that's exactly what I haven't been receiving, as I laid out in the paragraph you selectivity quoted. What's your point exactly?
> Synonyms of bigot
> a narrow-minded person who obstinately adheres to their own opinions and prejudices
especially : one who strongly and unfairly dislikes or feels hatred toward others based on their group membership
I merely shared a behaviorial observation of something I find odd. At no time did I react with prejudice or hate towards any particular group.
We might be the same age; I remember that defacing conservative websites was already a C3 thing about 20 years ago. Back then, it felt good to punch up against authoritarianism. Hackers hated Bush and his Patriot Act just as much as many hate Trump now. In Germany, the CDU is of course the perennial enemy.
But what happens when authoritarianism does not come from the right, but from the left or center? (Not a contradiction: East Germany was an "anti-fascist" totalitarian state as recently as 40 years ago.) Sadly, I think we have been slowly moving in this direction since Covid, where I was genuinely shocked that many of my "leftie" friends had turned into government drones (from my perspective), while they were deeply disappointed that I was now a "right-winger" (from their perspective).
The more aware they become of how unpopular some of their politics are, the less they believe in democracy as a concept, while I'm still jealous of countries that have proper referendums and freedom of speech. Hate Speech laws are accelerating this divide.
Anyway, I think that these are the dynamics that are driving many people apart who all simultaneously claim to not have changed in decades. The CCC is still doing a lot of great work, but I do feel it drifting away from me because it is not so much about punching up than about punching right.
The authoritarianism quick clearly and explicitly comes from the far right, Putin and Trump. Claiming anything else is ridiclous, its not even hidden anymore. Its a clear outright endorsment.
Back in the Bush days it was about defending freedom but being to invasive about doing it. Nobody was talking about Bush they do about Trump. And the CDU of old is certaintly not the modern AfD.
Claiming the lefts action in covid even approches the lines of thought out of Trump, AfD or Putin isnt a serious argument.
That is not what I said at all. My claim is that, regardless of what the authoritarian right is doing, the left has become more tolerant of authoritarianism itself, especially to 'save democracy' (which is again reminescent of the GDR, starting from its very name).
As to why this split is happening, I'd argue it was easier to be anti-authoritarian when we were in the opposition, just as today's AfD reliably votes against Chat Control or other power grabs because it makes them look good at no cost. But the left has become a dominant force due to its long march through the institutions, and some want to use this power to crush the enemy (debanking, police raids for milquetoast internet comments). Others look at the internet compass from your sibling post and decide they'd rather hang out with people in the libertarian right than with _any_ kind of authoritarian.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the CCC is an authoritarian organization. But I doubt they'll ever be too critical of our intransparent "Trusted Flagger" system, for example, because they know it would anger many in their crowd. 20 years ago we'd have agreed that this kind of crap only happens in China.
But yeah to me it seems these "antifaschistisch orgs" acting like thugs and then thinking they're immune to prosecution because they're antifaschistisch (according to themselves) of course
Not really, look at the schedule for 34c3. Much more interesting things and less politics.
And it also has felt more and more forced in the last couple years
How is it computer adjacent, keep in mind, it's a talk about how the media communicates things...
Surveillance was the political topic of 2020, so there was quite a few talks about that, migration is the political topic 2025, so there are a lot of talks about that
There are also other unrelated things which do not have a lot to do with computers, like "all creatures welcome".
> Surveillance was the political topic of 2020, so there was quite a few talks about that, migration is the political topic 2025, so there are a lot of talks about that
There is one important difference: surveillance is a deeply computer-/hacking-related topics while migration isn't.
So I would say a talk about surveillance (as long as it is relevant for hacking topics) typically has its place while it is much harder to find a reason why a talk about migration has relevance for a hacking conference.
Surveillance has relevance to core CCC/hacking topics (privacy is a central topic against which hackers fight), so I can understand why the organisers decided to include this talk in the schedule: they considered it to be a good idea that the audience should also get a "non-computer perspective" on a topic that is highly relevant to hackers.
But I agree that for the decision to include or not include this specific talk, the organisers have to apply an exceptionally good judgement: if they make a "wrong" decision here, people will immediately (rightfully) complain that the talks are too political (or if they "wronged" by non-inclusion of this talk, the other side will complain that important topics are omitted).
Not sure the number is up from last year (I think there are fewer O/T talks this year even) but there are many talks that have nothing to do with hacking even if some of them might pigue my interest, such as the following:
Then there are topics merely having "computer" in them like everything in this day and age but aren't about hacking, and it's disappointing because I know for a fact other talks had to make room for these:
I think you're missing the ethos of the event in general, and the fact that you are pointing to tracks in the ethics track or the arts track in particular.
>At a smaller business I worked at, I was able to use these services to achieve uptime and performance that I couldn’t achieve self-hosted, because I had to spend time on the product itself. So yeah, we’d saved on infrastructure engineers.
How sure are you about that one? All of my hetzner vm`s reach an uptime if 99.9% something.
I could see more then one small business stack fitting onto a single of those vm`s.
100% certain because I started by self hosting before moving to AWS services for specific components and improved the uptime and reduced the time I spent keeping those services alive.
A Django+Celery app behind Nginx back in the day. Most maintenance would be discovering a new failure mode:
- certificates not being renewed in time
- Celery eating up all RAM and having to be recycled
- RabbitMQ getting blocked requiring a forced restart
- random issues with Postgres that usually required a hard restart of PG (running low on RAM maybe?)
- configs having issues
- running out of inodes
- DNS not updating when upgrading to a new server (no CDN at the time)
- data centre going down, taking the provider’s email support with it (yes, really)
Bear in mind I’m going back a decade now, my memory is rusty. Each issue was solvable but each would happen at random and even mitigating them was time that I (a single dev) was not spending on new features or fixing bugs.
Er… what? Even in today’s world with Docker, you have differences between dev and prod. For a start, one is accessed via the internet and requires TLS configs to work correctly. The other is accessed via localhost.
Just fyi, you can put whatever you want in /etc/hosts, it gets hit before the resolver. So you can run your website on localhost with your regular host name over https.
Just because your VM is running doesn't mean the service is accessible. Whenever there's a large AWS outage it's usually not because the servers turned off. It also doesn't guarantee that your backups are working properly.
If you have a server where everything is on the server, the server being on means everything is online... There is not a lot of complexity going on inside a single server infrastructure.
I mean just because you have backups does not mean you can restore them ;-)
We do test backup restoration automatically and also on a quarterly basis manually, but so you should do with AWS.
Otherwise how do you know you can restore system a without impact other dependency, d and c
It depends entirely on your use case. If all you need is a DB and Python/PHP/Node server behind Nginx then you can get away with that for a long time. Once you throw in a task runner, emails, queue systems, blob storage, user-uploaded content, etc. you can start running beyond your own ability or time to fix the inevitable problems.
As I pointed out above, you may be better served mixing and matching so you spend your time on the critical aspects but offload those other tasks to someone else.
Of course, I’m not sitting at your computer so I can’t tell you what’s right for you.
Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less.
Not going to happen with Apple.
No company that's big enough is paying sticker price for windows laptops.
```
Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less.
Not going to happen with Apple.
```
Exactly. Thanks for explaining this.
Also one more point to note is Windows machines go on discount sales very frequently. It's usually way too easy to find one with 32GB and 1TB, with the latest Ryzen or Intel mobile processors.
Bonus when you find one like Lenovo Legion which allows you to buy and shove-in extra RAM/storage as you need them.
But then you just ignored everything else, build quality, webcam, speakers, sound, SSD speed, keyboard, battery runtime, screen quality..
With business line for comparable build quality/durability you are not getting half price anymore, and I have not yet seen any laptop speaker/webcam not on a MacBook with comparable quality.
I do not have access to bulk discounts, but you are more then invited to post some samples.
For me personally? Yeah, I care about build quality, webcam, speakers, etc. Which is mostly why I still use a macbook.
But for bulk purchases the business is buying for the average office worker, no, none of those things matter. The only thing that matters is RAM, CPU, and does it have a 3/5 year warranty (whatever the lifecycle of the device is). Otherwise, it's spending 8 hours a day hooked up to a docking station, lid closed, and users use headsets for meetings.
That's largely why it's so hard to find/buy a non-mac laptop with equivalent price to performance & build quality. They largely aren't made for individuals who are choosing their own hardware.
>vast majority of people care more about RAM, SSD and CPU
The vast majority of people do not know what any of this is, and they do not care at all, they want a fast machine for there usecase.. and for most people that is the equivalent to editing a word doc and listening to Spotify.
After watching a review if the LG gram, yeah, I am not convinced that comes anywhere close in regards of speakers or keyboard.. and the durability seems.. questionable
It also seem to be around the same price point of a MacBook air with more or less the same specs on super duper black Friday sale
Isn't that what RAM, CPU and SSD are all about?
The average user doesn't care much, but at the end of the day if your machine cannot keep up several open apps due to low RAM or cannot store a lot of data because you only have 256GB, that's a problem right?
Let's be real, the videos get far to much eyes to break the law. There are smaller talks and groups where it looks different.