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"Sitz" and "platz" sound too similar, so to make it easier, some german people I know use a mixture of german and english.

"Sitz!" for sit

"Down!" for down.


What happened to open weight models are 2-3 years behind the proprietary ones? I don't see the drama here.

"Also notable: 4.7 now defaults to NOT including a human-readable reasoning token summary in the output, you have to add "display": "summarized" to get that"

I did not follow all of this, but wasn't there something about, that those reasoning tokens did not represent internal reasoning, but rather a rough approximation that can be rather misleading, what the model actual does?


The reasoning is the secret sauce. They don't output that. But to let you have some feedback about what is going on, they pass this reasoning through another model that generates a human friendly summary (that actively destroys the signal, which could be copied by competition).

Don't or can't.

My assumption is the model no longer actually thinks in tokens, but in internal tensors. This is advantageous because it doesn't have to collapse the decision and can simultaneously propogate many concepts per context position.


I would expect to see a significant wall clock improvement if that was the case - Meta's Coconut paper was ~3x faster than tokenspace chain-of-thought because latents contain a lot more information than individual tokens.

Separately, I think Anthropic are probably the least likely of the big 3 to release a model that uses latent-space reasoning, because it's a clear step down in the ability to audit CoT. There has even been some discussion that they accidentally "exposed" the Mythos CoT to RL [0] - I don't see how you would apply a reward function to latent space reasoning tokens.

[0]: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/K8FxfK9GmJfiAhgcT/anthropic-...


There’s also a paper [0] from many well known researchers that serves as a kind of informal agreement not to make the CoT unmonitorable via RL or neuralese. I also don’t think Anthropic researchers would break this “contract”.

[0] https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.11473


If that's true, then we're following the timeline of https://ai-2027.com/

> If that's true, then we're following the timeline

Literally just a citation of Meta's Coconut paper[1].

Notice the 2027 folk's contribution to the prediction is that this will have been implemented by "thousands of Agent-2 automated researchers...making major algorithmic advances".

So, considering that the discussion of latent space reasoning dates back to 2022[2] through CoT unfaithfulness, looped transformers, using diffusion for refining latent space thoughts, etc, etc, all published before ai 2027, it seems like to be "following the timeline of ai-2027" we'd actually need to verify that not only was this happening, but that it was implemented by major algorithmic advances made by thousands of automated researchers, otherwise they don't seem to have made a contribution here.

[1] https://ai-2027.com/#:~:text=Figure%20from%20Hao%20et%20al.%...

[2] https://arxiv.org/html/2412.06769v3#S2


Hilariously, I clicked back a bunch and got a client side error. We have a long way to go. I wouldn't worry about it.

Care to expound on that? Maybe a reference to the relevant section?

Ctrl-F "neuralese" on that page.

You should just read the thing, whether or not you believe it, to have an informed opinion on the ongoing debate.

I did read it a while back. Was curious what parent was referring to specifically

That's not supposed to happen til 2027. Ruh roh.

Only if you ignore context and just ctrl-f in the timeline.

What are you, Haiku?

But yeah, in many ways we're at least a year ahead on that timeline.


Don't.

The first 500 or so tokens are raw thinking output, then the summarizer kicks in for longer thinking traces. Sometimes longer thinking traces leak through, or the summarizer model (i.e. Claude Haiku) refuses to summarize them and includes a direct quote of the passage which it won't summarize. Summarizer prompt can be viewed [here](https://xcancel.com/lilyofashwood/status/2027812323910353105...), among other places.


No, there is research in that direction and it shows some promise but that’s not what’s happening here.

Are you sure? It would be great to get official/semi-official validation that thinking is or is not resolved to a token embedding value in the context.

You can read the model cards. Claude thinks in regular text, but the summarizer is to hide its tool use and other things (web searches, coding).

Most likely, would be cool yes see a open source Nivel use diffusion for thinking.

Don't. thinking right now is just text. Chain of though, but just regular tokens and text being output by the model.

'Hey Claude, these tokens are utter unrelated bollocks, but obviously we still want to charge the user for them regardless. Please construct a plausible explanation as to why we should still be able to do that.'

Although it's more likely they are protecting secret sauce in this case, I'm wondering if there is an alternate explanation that LLMs reason better when NOT trying to reason with natural language output tokens but rather implement reasoning further upstream in the transformer.

I would doubt it. They are mostly trained on natural language. They may be getting some visual reasoning capability from multi-modal training on video, but their reasoning doesn't seem to generalize much from one domain to another.

Some future AGI, not LLM based, that learns from it's own experience based on sensory feedback (and has non-symbolic feedback paths) presumably would at least learn some non-symbolic reasoning, however effective that may be.


Terra Mineralia in Freiberg (quite close to Prague), is also worth a visit.

The buisness opportunity is what they are advertising here, communication with lawyers is protected, continue to go pay real lawyers for every question and don't try yourself with AI, that is unfortunately not protected.

Yes, so the lawyer can use AI to answer your questions and then the judge can discover that, since there isn't attorney-bot privilege. :/

Some infinite water supply would be probably helpful there.

Infinite indeed, need to keep it topped off as it all boils away.

Now I think of a scifi setting, where rich people use massive ressources to feed their artificial gardens on Merkur with water from comets, so the genetically engineered solar powered green butterflies in their garden can keep flying.

(But there might be more expensive adjustments needed, like rotation speed)


"Record All The Things."

Unless you use a crappy smartphone with a bright annoying screen ..


Somebody whipped out a freakin iPad and started recording video in front of me once. Like wtf

I hope you told them to stop. I always do. And that's not out of any copy infringement morals or anything, but of course out of a personal enjoyment infringement. ;-)

Yeah, I get that :) But at the same time, it’s interesting how people react differently. Some want the moment only for themselves, others want to capture it.

I get this. At the same time, people want to capture something real while they’re there. Feels like a trade-off.

Nope. By disturbing all the people around you with a bright screen, you prevent them from capturing the real concert right now they want to see without a flickering screen in front of them.

And personally I can record, or enjoy the real moment. But most people who record with their crappy smartphones probably just want to get the virtual recognition after they shared their videos, they were there, "like", great. But no one I know, actually watches shaky crappy smartphone concert recordings.


The main parts that mattered were the european ones. And usually, capturing the enemies capital equals victory and Napoleon did capture Moscow. The russians just decided to keep the fight going, despite the chance that their capital burns down, which it did (allegedly on purpose to drive Napoleon out).

In general, Napoleon did not think the russians would use scorched earth tactics, meaning burning their own land, villages, food to deny the french army any supplies (and the russian peasants did not agree to this, but they were not asked).


> usually, capturing the enemies capital equals victory and Napoleon did capture Moscow.

Too bad the capital was Saint Petersburg at that time.


That's why you should never trust a time traveler. They probably know as much about your time as you about theirs.

I also don't trust my government. So should I just degovernment completely? Sounds just as practical or realistic for most people.

"Just move" seems to be a pretty popular sentiment, in that scenario.

As if the government doesn't monitor both non-citizens and ex-citizens living in other countries too.

You’re saying moving on from Google is similar to switching government?

Switching government and deleting google are probably on the same order of magnitude of difficulty for most people.

In a way, yes, as google de facto governs and controls much of the internet.

Have you tried moving on from Google, and preferably not to Apple?

Yes, it’s trivial. What are you having difficulty with? There are plenty of threads here on HN about this

If you think it's trivial you must not be paying attention. You cannot keep your data from Google. Government websites include google tracking. Google drives past your house to take photos and sniff your wifi traffic. Your employer hands your data over to google. Your doctor hands your data over to google. Your bank hands your data over to google. You can limit how much you actively and voluntarily give them, but you can't free yourself from them entirely and still function in society.

Trivial? Ha! Way to say that you never tried it. Either that, or that you don't care for things like push notifications. Yes, most of the things work, but not nearly all of them.

For those of us stuck on normal android, is there a way to achieve that? I know it used to work with some firewall apps but nowdays they all require root access.

Rethink DNS can block internet access of an app (besides doing DNS-based blocking, etc.): https://rethinkdns.com

It uses the VPN functionality, but you can stack a Wireguard VPN on top of it.


Netguard No Root Firewall still works for me: https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard

+1 for Netguard, it is awesome. A bit clumsy UI, but indispensible.

It looks like you can't revoke the internet permission, but you can use the firewall via ADB. Settings are lost on reboot, but you can use an automation with Tasker or similar to set them on boot:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tasker/comments/1mxjnvs/how_to_bloc...


Not the same thing, but you can install an app like Blokada Libre to block ads and trackers in all apps.

https://blokada.org/


Or you can set your DNS resolver to dns.adguard-dns.com and it blocks almost all ads. You can search "private dns" in Android settings app and set it there.

This has the disadvantage that you can’t whitelist specific domains, which is something I need pretty often.

You can signup for private adguard dns, then you should be able to whitelist domains.

Go to settings > App > $SCUMMY_APP > Mobile Data & WiFi. Uncheck all.

Not a thing on stock android

Why does Apple not give that Wi-Fi option there? I mean, is there a reason we’d be sympathetic to?

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