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I know this topic has been beat to death but this is another example of why high level language with super optimizing compiler has had less industry success.

If performance is a feature it needs to be written in the code. Otherwise it implicitly regresses when you reorder a symbol and you have no recourse to fix it, other than fiddling to see if it likes another pattern.


To be fair, it’s misleading to group Scala (or any JVM language), with other “high-level languages.”

The JVM is extremely mature and performant, and JVM-based languages often run 5x (or more) than non-JVM high-level languages like Python or Ruby.


That doesn’t follow. Scala is a high level language and compiler above the JVM. The bug here is a high level one:

> Turns out there was indeed a subtle bug making chained evaluations inefficient in Scala 3

I’m comparing with Haskell, Scheme, or even SQl which all promise to compile efficient code from high level descriptions.


The bug in TFA is hardly a reason that Scala is not a success, though.

I didn’t say that. I’m highlighting a specific challenge of getting predictable performance over the lifetime of code.

Lower-level languages don’t have this same problem to the same extent. They have other problems Scala doesn’t have.


In a healthy society systems that are less tolerant to abuse still function. And in an unhealthy society only the systems resilient to malicious actors work.

> people just disagree about values and are going to weigh judgment on others based on what they believe

Uh yeah. Moral judgments are about personal beliefs


Is it really about the content of these experiences? Or a social in-group bonding ritual? Do people do these things alone?

The direct result of this thinking is that people who need the accommodation face difficulty in getting it.

You don’t have to return your shopping cart. You don’t have to donate to the collection plate. You don’t have to give a coworker recognition.

But when everyone has an adversarial “get mine” attitude the systems have to be changed. Instead of assuming good intent they have to enforce it. Enforcement is very expensive and very unpleasant. (For example, maybe you need to rent the shopping cart.)

Unfortunately enforcement is a self fulfilling cycle. When people see others cheating they feel they need to cheat just to not be left behind.

You may be from a culture where this is the norm. Reflect on its impact and how we would really like to avoid this.


I think you're reading more into what I said than what I intended.

I'm not endorsing the specific behavior, but I am pointing out that if there's a "cheating" lever anyone can pull to improve their own situation, it will get pulled if people think it's justified.

There's plenty that do get pulled and plenty that don't. In the US, SNAP fraud is sufficiently close to nonexistant that you can't tell the difference in benefits provided. But fraud surrounding lying about medical conditions to get a medical marijuana card is universal and accepted.

The people we're talking about here are teenagers that are told "if you have an ADHD diagnosis you can ask for and get your own room". The sort of systems thinking you are describing is not generally done by your average fresh high school graduate. This is therefore a Stanford problem.


Some levers are accessible to everyone, but the implied social contract is that you only pull it if you actually need it, because the system doesn't have enough resources for everyone to do it.

Yes, I agree.

Trouble is, getting teenagers to accept and live by that isn't something that will pan out. Societies have been trying for millenia.

If your system built for teenagers relies on the social contract in this way, it's a bad system. People who are over a half decade from a fully developed brain aren't going to grasp this.


Teenagers aren’t getting disability accommodations. Their parents are.

What? The parents of the college students in the article are not the ones being given extra time on tests and being given solo on-campus housing.

What disability accomodations do you think the parents are receiving?


- The parents are getting them FOR their kids. - why are we acting like stanford students are unaccountable teenagers

> The parents are getting them FOR their kids.

That's not mentioned in the article. Is this your personal speculation or do you have something to support that claim? The article seems to make it clear that it is the students themselves getting these accommodations, so your claim is directly contradicting the article we're commenting on.

> why are we acting like stanford students are unaccountable teenagers

Well they're definitionally teenagers, and if you know of a way to make teenagers act en masse accountable to society's values, that would be a novel development in social human history going back to Ancient Greece. So barring that, we should treat the teenagers whose brains have not yet developed enough to grasp society-wide consequences for personal actions as such.


The problem is that people simply have no investment in a community anymore. This is a direct consequence of globalization and capitalism. Travel to a foreign land, exploit the locals, and return home. Westerners are just now realizing that they're on the receiving end of it now.

> You don’t have to donate to the collection plate

Hey, if they stop using the money I donate to advertise that my neighbors are abominations in the eyes of God they can have my money again.


The "collection plate" could just as well mean a panhandler's hat. The point is charitable giving, not christian specifically.

Athens is a tiny community. And within that the citizens are the aristocrats who know each other by name. Ordinary residents are merchants or slaves.

Sure and when the US was founded the majority of residents were similarly not allowed to vote because voting was restricted voting to a minority of property-owning white males over the age of 21. Democracy has evolved from its Athenian origins, presumably sortition would as well.

I think their point was that it only worked because of such a cohort to randomly select from.

That was also my interpretation and why I made the point that democratic processes have evolved to account for a changing polity.

The US government could not be managed by Athenian sortition any more than it could be by Athenian direct democracy -- the citizenry is too different, the questions too complex.

However, just as the Romans evolved their original Athenian-style direct democracy into representative democracy as their empire grew and became more heterogeneous, sortition has similarly evolved into deliberative democracy.


Well I’m saying more than that.

There is no historical precedent for our democratic system. Not Romans, Greeks, or 13 colonies. Why cite them?

Nobody has ever had a system with 300 million people having almost direct voting while simultaneously having no definition of a citizen besides “born here”.

I’m skeptical. The Trump/Fetterman/RFK phenomenon is the fruit of this democracy, not an unlikely aberration.


We elect leaders - people with skills, knowledge, and expertise.

Does the average citizen even understand discounted cash flows or opportunity cost? And not to mention legal concepts I’m ignorant of.

I don’t see why lowering the quality of candidates by 10x would improve things.


> We elect leaders - people with skills, knowledge, and expertise.

I admire your optimism but saying it doesn't make it so.

We elect people able to convince others they should be elected. Often that means they possess the ability to convince others they have the skills, knowledge, and expertise you describe.

If you think that's the same thing as actually having skills, knowledge, and expertise, well, I have bad news for you...


Optimism would be believing people on the street are as capable as Us senators.

That's because most US senators have been senators longer than most people have been alive.

Most random people off the street would be as capable as a US senator if they spent decades doing it.


People aren’t even good at the menial jobs they do have.

Yes, that's something they have in common with most of Congress.

Do our current elected leaders understand discounted cash flows or opportunity cost? I'm not seeing evidence our current process results in people skill, knowledge, and expertise, especially given the over representation of people from entertainment.

Yes. across parties senators typically have prestigious law degrees and piles of accomplishments.

I’m not saying that makes them great. But if you want to see the pool of average citizens walk into a Walmart or DMV outside the Bay Area.


Yes. They just don’t talk about it because the voters don’t understand and feel insulted when they hear politicians talk about stuff they don’t understand.

Literally laughed out loud about this. You might have missed some of the things that prominent leaders with "skill, knowledge, and expertise" have been doing:

https://www.kennedy.senate.gov/public/2025/9/kennedy-calls-f...

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/26/politics/james-inhofe-sno...

Or an even older one: https://rollcall.com/2018/02/16/flashback-friday-a-series-of...

We are definitely not sending our brightest.


- literally a Kennedy - has BA from Harvard - has law degree

That’s not an ordinary person even if we think his health views are dumb.


  got into Harvard
What, like it's hard?

(Cannot resist the legally blonde reference)


Isn’t literally a Kennedy a point against proving merit? Do you think many professors would fail a Bush, Clinton, Bezos, Zuckerberg, etc? Do such bloodlines even have to apply for admittance to prestigious institutions?

It is weird that you included Zuckerberg in that list -- Mark, I presume. I'm pretty sure it was not from a famous nor super wealthy family. Although, he did attend a prestigious high school, so his parents are probably upper middle class in US parlance. And Hillary Clinton is brilliant. Look at GW Bush's kids by comparison.

Edit: I meant to say: And Chelsea Clinton is brilliant.

Yes, Kennedys, Bushes, and Zuckerberg's are imuch smarter and more capable than a randomly selected person from Walmart. I'll stand by that.

I absolutely hate the fact that I agree with you, but I think this is actually correct.

Those advanced concepts are what gets used to dupe people into letting themselves be ripped off.

People WILL look at for their interests. We should ask for basic disclosure of what those are and vote for people who have our interests.

> Now everyone wants hardwood floors and quartz and more square footage, too.

What you’re sensing is that things that were luxuries are now not. It’s not a big deal to pay $500 for the quartz countertops when your house is $800k.

What has gone up is the cost of essentials and the base level of goods to participate in society: housing, transportation, medicine, and education.

So yeah a TV you thought was untouchable is 3 days of minimum wage work. But it’s orthogonal to why people feel economically disposssed.


Hmm, I would characterize FAANG employment differently.

The overwhelming commonality is class. They get people from sophisticated backgrounds who have aspirations and status.

And I think that has value in that employees act in generally trustworthy, and orderly manner, and cultivate tastes and interests that appeal to other people with money.

The exceptional programmer genius with mild Asperger’s from unknown background also exist. It’s just really rare and they kind of don’t fit in.

There just isn’t a pipeline for finding and recruiting those types, and there is for upper middle class kids.


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