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They aren’t even using an engine they built themselves. It’s built on top of Unreal Engine 5 which performs great for a ton of other games. They had to put effort into making it as badly performing as it is. It’s crazy.


> Buying used copies of books, scanning them, and training on it is fine.

Buying used copies of books, scanning them, and printing them and selling them: not fair use

Buying used copies of books, scanning them, and making merchandise and selling it: not fair use

The idea that training models is considered fair use just because you bought the work is naive. Fair use is not a law to leave open usage as long as it doesn’t fit a given description. It’s a law that specifically allows certain usages like criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. Training AI models for purposes other than purely academic fits into none of these.


Buying used copies of books, scanning them, training an employee with the scans: fair use.

Unless legislation changes, model training is pretty much analogous to that. Now of course if the employee in question - or the LLM - regurgitates a copyrighted piece verbatim, that is a violation and would be treated accordingly in either case.


> Buying used copies of books, scanning them, training an employee with the scans: fair use.

Does this still hold true if multiple employees are "trained" from scanned copies at the same time?


Simultaneously I guess that would violate copyright, which is an interesting point. Maybe there's a case to be made there with model training.

Regardless, the issue could be resolved by buying as many copies as you have concurrent model training instances. It isn't really an issue with training on copyrighted work, just a matter of how you do so.


Computers aren't people. And analogies aren't laws.


Yes, but the law doesn’t exist, so until it catches up, analogies are all the legal system has to work with.


The purpose and character of AI models is transformative, and the effect of the model on the copyrighted works used in the model is largely negligible. That's what makes the use of copyrighted works in creating them fair use.


Are "fantasy name generators" of the sort you find all over the place online fair use if the weighting of their generators is based on statistical information about names in fantasy novels? I would think most people would agree they're fair use, or if not in so many words, I think those people would find it pretty unfair for WotC to go around suing sites for running D&D character name generators.

Or let's talk about another form of buying copyrighted / protected content and selling the results of transforming it: emulators. The Connectix Virtual Game Station was the impetus for one of the most important lawsuits about emulation, and the ruling held that even though writing an emulator inherently involves copying copyrighted code, the result is sufficiently transformative and falls under fair use.


It fits the basicmost fair use: reading them. Current "training" can be considered as a gross form of reading.


Yes, and we should factor in a $ amount per child you’ve had, also subtract a $ amount per time you yell at said child. Also how much should a compliment given to a stranger be worth? Should the value be different if it’s in sincere?

The important point is that it’s the net sum at the end that qualifies if you are a good person! If you help out 1000 people and have 12 kids, but also you contribute to a racially motivated genocide, you’re still a good person as long as the net $ sum at the end is positive. /s

Absolutely everything about the idea seems wrong. Both the idea that it’s all about accounting and the idea that you can ascribe a definite value to actions that should sum to some moral statement.


So what "axiom" do you propose instead?


> And that's really only honed by learning and questioning a lot of subjects.

Sounds like a job for AI.


A coworker approached you and goes “hi, I have two children and one is a boy…” and is promptly vaporized because he doesn’t fit the selection criteria of the problem statement, another approaches and goes “err hi, I have two children and one is a girl…” looks nervously at the vaporizer but is left standing. What is the chance their other child is a girl, who has not been vaporized?

If you phrase the question as “someone with two children tell you the gender of a random one, what is the chance the other is the same gender?” Chance is 50/50 because 50% will have BB or GG and the vaporizer isn’t active.


> a random family has been sampled, the sample family has two childs, one of them is a girl"

It’s not a random family if it must have at least one girl. If you want to talk about a random family you can only make statements of the kind “one of the children is <gender>” where the gender depend on the specific family or “the family has between 0 and 2 girls”


> You can't just spin up leading edge semiconductor manufacturing on a dime. It takes decades and hundreds of billions to reach where companies like Intel and TSMC are now. It's so hard that it's essentially impossible for new entrants to catch up.

You can if intel goes bankrupt. Why do people act like a bankruptcy consists of taking all the employees out back and putting them down then setting all the buildings on fire.


It's hard to retain knowledge and processes in a bankruptcy. Even if you manage to get ALL the equipment and the people back (far, far from guaranteed) sometimes you've broken the systems that let it work in the first place.

(Not that Intel's has been working particularly well, as of late)


There's also a fascinating tension with physical exercise, which is that your preference would obviously be do it as early as possible, so you spend more time at a younger age as opposed to just prolonging the last years of your life, where you'll be stuck in a nursing home anyway.

But doing exercise while you're young is also much higher risk, and you might see people sacrificing their 20s for the sake of their 70s in a way they end up regretting, even if there aren't any injuries.

That said, even with risk of injuries it feels like a no brainer to be active and to be active from an early age.

Also I don’t think people should wait until their late 50ies to make sure they get enough vitamin c to “avoid sacrificing their 20ies”


The story has a bad spin yes. But it’s just as much of a controversy if they had require people themselves pay the cost if they found out the cars where shipped with defective breaks. It’s a product error not wear and tear or user error, they should eat the costs, but the cybersecurity framing of it is being used to attempt to push the cost to the consumer.


This is precisely the point I intended to make with my comment. Perhaps my phrasing was unclear.


I think the GP is just agreeing.


> Pay me more to fix it, not my problem that your requests is failing.

If you are employed in a position where there is a defect in the product then you are already being paid. Imagine going to a restaurant and you get an uncooked frozen steak, and when you tell the waiter they tell you that since the cook will need to spend more time on it you now have to pay extra.


Look at the price of the car compared to other electric SUVs. This is a mcdonalds type of situation. not a restaurant where you can request to cook a rare steak a bit more and not get charged extra


Even in McDonalds if what they give you is defective they will replace it without question once you bring it to their attention.

If it turned out the door locks on the car were defective you'd expect them to be replaced under warranty. If the warranty had expired the situation would, admittedly, be a bit murkier - but you could still make a case that since the locks had always been faulty they'd be the manufacturer's responsibility.

Someone I used to work with had a car a few years ago on which the battery would mysteriously drain for no obvious reason. It turned out to be a defect in the infotainment system's firmware - and he was furious that he was expected to pay for the firmware update to fix it. (The car was long out of warranty, though.)


> if what they give you is defective they will replace it without question once you bring it to their attention

Go there and request a rare steak or idk steak with kimchi, let is know how it goes!

This is a Korean car and probably secure enough in korea where you usually don't lock your bike and/or house. If it not secure if you park it on the street in SF/London/Magadan/Capetown/Kabul are you sure they owe you a free "fix" for everything that may occur


Hyundai has car factories in 10 countries. The car in question is made in at least 2 countries. The defect being fixed applies to cars sold by a British subsidiary in Britain to Britons with the promise that it meets British market standards. It’s not even clear to me that these cars were manufactured in Korea, if they were, they couldn’t be sold there due to the right hand drive. The cars in question were very much NOT made to be driven in Korean conditions.

If these people had bought a Korean market car in Korea and personally shipped it to the UK, yours would be a more compelling argument.

As it is, it makes no sense. If you choose to participate in a foreign market you do not get to abdicate responsibility for problems because they don’t exist in your home market.


Absurd. McDonald chose to participate in Korean market and I see no kimchi burgs there?


That’s because you didn’t check.

McDonald’s, famously, adapts their menu to the location. Here’s a bulgogi burger they only sell in Korea: https://www.mcdonalds.co.kr/eng/menu/detail.do

Here’s another menu item exclusive to Korea https://www.mcdonalds.co.kr/eng/menu/detail.do

It is one of many local menu items available exclusively in Korea. What is absurd is that you make false assertions that can be checked faster than you can write your comment.

Do you genuinely think that Hyundai does not adapt the car to the market (did they accidentally put the steering wheel on the right, and just happen to send those cars to the UK?)? Every car company HAS to do this, if only because different markets have contradictory rules. E.g. Lights that are legal in North America do not meet the standards of other countries. The car HAS to be adapted to the market.


What an absolutely absurd thing to say


I agree the mere notion is ridiculous yet here we are! Hyundai is not making the kimchi burger of free theft protection upgrades for places with rampant crime and we are so angry!


That's absurd logic as cybersecurity applies everywhere.

Also, they need to secure it the international markets they're selling it in.


You are confusing infosec on the internet which is global and local crime which is not global and VERY different per country


In the internet age, all it takes is a generic programmable radio signal emitter device. The logic is probably even free available on some GitHub repo.


You don't seem to understand the idea:

For internet security, you get everyone hack you from north koreans and beyond.

For house and car security it depends on what crime is in your location and how police work. Some places have almost zero so people literally don't care to lock doors. Some places need locks to stop opportunists. Some places you need electric fences and 24/7 security with guns and keep valuables in safes to hopefully slow down their removal until security comes. It's not comparable to cyber


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Are you just a mean person on general that you think bringing a problem to the attention of wait staff would cause them to become malicious?

Be a nice human being and you won’t receive that treatment. If your McDonalds wait staff are generally malicious without any provocation, well vote with your feet, nobody is making you eat McDonalds, the sales numbers will correct he problem.


While as noble as that sounds, there’s only so much nice in the tank in a day. Wait staff and fast food workers are treated terribly and so you end up with folks about to snap.

There’s a lot of evidence of this happening in the USA if you just do a search. It’s uncommon, but it happens. At those prices, I’d just rather purchase the item to be made again.

But yes, be a good human.


You read some stuff on search and you think it somethings that happens more than it really does.

In general they don't care, it's not coming out of their paychecks, they'll give you another burger, go away now.

When I worked at McDonald's we'd have the favorite burgers pre-made and they'd be left at the warming tray, so orders can be taken care of in maybe 30 seconds, but I guess nowadays that's too wasteful so the burgers are made on demand. There was a day like "Big Macs for $1" day, so we had a line of maybe 50 Big Macs queued, wrapped and ready to eat, that the foreman said "Slow it down with the Big Macs!".


> You do this, they’ll spit in it.

I didn't work there long, but I don't remember anyone doing that.


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