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The focus on this article is demographics, but the most important things to tribes are our language, culture, and tribal sovereignty. We are not a box on a census form and never will be.

We are pre-Constitutional sovereigns, recognized by our treaties with the U.S. and Canada. States like Michigan might force our teachers get "foreign language certificates," despite the fact that Michigan is a word from our language[0], but my children speak their language and our culture are pillars of strength and stability in our family. Blood quanta, problems of race in America, what to call us -- that's not our focus.

[0]https://www.interlochenpublicradio.org/michigan-education/20...


That is a data point that is measurable at least and some useful information can be inferred from , though you may have a point that it is incomplete.


Are the losses thermal? How significantly could this change the ocean temperature near the cable? 50% of 600 GW is enough to cause a 10C increase in the temperature of 10 million liters of seawater every second?


The short answer is that if 10,000,000 L/s of well mixed water passed over the wire, it’s temperature would increase by 0.75 degrees Celsius.

The long answer is that this is not quite the right way to view the question. There will be a temperature gradient around the cable - a zone where water is heated. The question is, how hot is this zone and how large is it. The cable will be buried, which makes the zone larger and less hot. However, this all depends on the type of soil in the ocean floor.

One thermal study estimated that, with typical operating temperatures and burying depths, the sea floor temperature (of the soil, not the water) would heat by 10 to 18 degrees Celsius. This is enough to potentially interfere with ocean life, according to the authors of the study. Because of limits in the operating temperature of cables, a project like this would make a larger zone like this, but the maximum temperature would stay the same.

It’s important to note that we already mess up aquatic life by discharging thermal energy into bodies of water. High temperature water discharge from power plants can make rivers more friendly towards invasive species and shift the balance of aquatic ecosystems. This project might be a net neutral for aquatic life by reducing high temperature discharge into rivers while creating hot spots in the ocean.

Thermal study: https://doi.org/10.1093/gji/ggw195


10,000,000 L/s over 15,000 km. That's 15,000,000 meters. That seems quite likely to happen, and then some.


What seems quite likely to happen?


10,000,000 liters per second flowing past the cable.


What about the magnetic field? I think distance is required between the two sides of the cable to prevent arc, which also means there will be a magnetic field.


Negligible. The magnetic field is produced in the space between the conductors, and falls off very rapidly (inverse cube) as you move away from that.


Heat becomes an issue before magnets do. Magnets follow an inverse power law but thermal conduction regimes produce linear temperature gradients. The spacing required for cooling is greater than the spacing required for EM insulation except for very low power flows.


hmm, 500 gigawatts dissipated over 300k square gigameters of ocean surface gives a forcing effect of 1.6 milliwatts per square meter. Global warming right now is forcing 1w/sqm, so it's not a problem at this scale. But it's not a crazy question either.


It’s not evenly spread, though. It’s concentrated along the cable. It won’t heat up the ocean much as a whole, but it will create “hot spots”, which may change the balance of ecosystems in the regions of the ocean the cable passes through.

Worth it to stop carbon emissions? Absolutely, in my opinion.

Something that should be considered and minimized if possible? Also yes.


That's a good point. 500 gigawatts over 15 megameters gives 20kw/m of local heat to deal with, which sounds kind of yikes.. but then again a pool heater draws 5kw. Seems clear the biggest effect will be on the seabed-- but that's already true because you gotta drop the cable. I reckon the cable itself, and its underwater infrastructure, might have more impact than the heat it generates. Another consideration is that there have always been heat sources in the deep ocean.


I think it should be obvious that you cannot study electrical excitability in dead, fixed cadaver tissue.

This is top-notch science, but might be hard for people to appreciate.


This study does not report that that layer V cortical neurons are missing a particular ion channel. They examine currents through HCN and voltaged-gated potassium channels and find differences in the total current carried that depends on species.

In general, epileptic disorders are observed across species. It's common in dogs, for instance: https://www.akcchf.org/canine-health/top-health-concerns/epi...

A ton of papers examining ion channel expression in epilepsy that should be more relevant: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=human+ion+channel+epil...


The majority of a neuron's transmembrane capacitance is attributed to the lipid membrane itself, so a lower density of ion channels should not appreciably alter capacitance.

Action potential rates and the ability to phase-lock to inputs are significantly affected by the membrane time constant. Generally, membranes with lower conductances at rest and during spiking will have higher (slower) membrane time constants. This isn't a straightforward explanation for the ability of human some neurons to phase lock to higher frequencies.

Impedance data across species relevant to this idea is in Extended Data Figure 2 and 5 of the paper.


The original research article is the subject of an editorial expression of concern. There is no direct evidence to support the title of the post.


As an academic neuroscientist doing animal experiments, my hope is that animal research will eventually be obsolete, but think we are 1-2 centuries away from the required technology to do mechanistic and ethical experiments in ourselves. The article points out some questionable experiments but left out what we have learned/developed using animal models. This includes sars-cov-2 vaccines [1], the molecular identity of neurotransmitters [2], and gene therapies for SMA1, which typically kills children before their fifth birthday [3]. Animal activist's hearts are in the right place and we try to treat them as ethically as we can. I personally known several patients with ALS who have died and feel incredible urgency as a scientist. Animal testing is currently highly effective and irreplaceable. I would urge people who's perspective on animal testing is shaped by interactions with their pets to volunteer with charities that aid families with seriously ill children [4].

1 https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/08/america-...

2 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/classicessay...

3 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1706198

4 https://www.rmhc.org/


Kids demand a lot of time but can be remarkably unselfish. My 3 y.o. daughter made my bed this morning and tries to help me if I seem tired. We help each other out, and parenthood opened me up to a way of living that was less self-interested.


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