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Too bad you can't get it until you're over 50 or immunocompromised.

I'm 42 in Canada and just got the first shot yesterday. Doctor prescribed it because I'm getting psoriasis and I guess that puts you at a higher risk of developing shingles. With the prescription, it was fully covered.

More specifically, a person presenting with psoriasis has already been at higher risk.

Presumably if you were vaccinated as a child against chickenpox (Herpes Zoster) and didn't get chickenpox then you already have the protection.

There are no dementia statistics versus vaccination for that demographic because vaccination started about 1995.

There is also a relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1950/

If you are thinking that dementia is caused by shingles, then also consider that shingles is caused by chickenpox.


is this a regional/country thing? I'm 30 and I never got chickenpox vaxx, and I never heard of anyone getting such a thing growing up. but I also never heard of anyone getting chickenpox either when I was a kid. it just wasn't a thing? I only knew about it from american cartoons.

not an antivaxx community, people got MMR and HPV and tetanus vaxx. this was normalworld suburban britain. I didn't even know there was a chickenpox vaxx until now.


Apparently, while it is currently available to certain people in the UK, the chickenpox will only become generally available to children starting next year: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/free-chickenpox-vaccinati...

britain is a developing country

NHS has been refusing to vaccinate against chickenpox for many years. Finally changed its mind in the last year or two.

(Got both of my kids (5&7) vaccinated privately. Don't regret it at all.)


>NHS has been refusing to vaccinate against chickenpox for many years.

what the fuck. why?

god damn I hate rNHS national cult. better get myself vaxxed to undo this idiocy.


I believe the worry was twofold:

1) That people who couldn't be vaccinated would get the virus later in life (because it would be less common), when it's a much more serious illness.

2) That there was a protective effect against shingles from having people regularly encounter the disease by encountering children with chicken pox.

But it turns out that the latter isn't actually an issue.


wtfff

are there more vaccines they're hiding from us?


I think lots of kids in the USA got the MMRV vaccination when very young. MMRV stands for: • Measles • Mumps • Rubella • Varicella (Chickenpox). Apparently some places do the Varicella vaccine separately (VARIVAX?).

Over the last few years we have been discovering many diseases are secondary complications from viral infections, such as the linked study, or Multiple Sclerosis due to Epstein-Barr virus.

Perhaps that has rebalanced the cost/benefit analysis of some vaccines?

A childhood vaccine that prevents a percentage of dementia cases would be amazing!

I caught chickenpox as an young adult in the US. Recently paid NZ$700 to have shingles vaccination privately (NZ provides it free at 65; however I know many people that have had a hideous time dealing with shingles and I'd like to avoid that).


fly to a 2nd or 0th world country and pay a doctor to do it

Why not?

It's not been formally evidenced as beneficial in younger, healthy people (there just haven't been studies) so receiving it is "off label".

It's possible to find someone who would write a prescription for it anyway, as with many off label prescriptions with low perceived risk of harm, but insurance is unlikely to cover it.

Many/most doctors won't do that, though, especially without at least some kind of specific reason (like having recurrent cases already).


As someone who got shingles in his 30s, it seems weird that a vaccine requires formal evidence to be beneficial to a younger population. Are there known side-effects that might outweigh the benefits? Shingles sucks at any age, making people wait to get the vaccine just because shingles is more common in the elderly seems odd.

I also had it in my 30's (and now again in my 40's) so I get it.

But there's a whole "evidence based medicine" thing that many of us usually try to champion, and it turns out the collecting such evidence is something expensive and priority-constrained. Due to lack of suitably targeted studies, there's just not formal evidence that the vaccine will be effective or lasting for us, or on what risks might apply to younger people with more robust immune systems.

There's also just a consideration about rationing the drug itself (it's seen shortages), and so prioritizing availability to more at-risk populations is not totally unreasonable.

All that said, it's not like it's impossible or illegal to get. You just need to find a prescriber who'll sign off for it (they exist), and you might need to pay cash rate for it at the pharmacy.


So, I understand this, and I absolutely support evidence-based medicine. I guess I'm at a loss as to why decades of giving this vaccine to folks 50+ is not sufficient to assess risk for people under that age, or never inspired more study into side effects. I also think that people who are 50+ are living long enough these days that we could probably make a good assessment as to how long the vaccine lasts (if we're not assessing that, I'd be kind of surprised and concerned as to why not).

Prioritizing drugs in the event of shortages is totally understandable, though pretty easily fixable if you give the manufacturers time to plan for general availability (hopefully they would see it as an opportunity to make money by broadening market share, not an opportunity to make money by restricting supply).


> As someone who got shingles in his 30s, it seems weird that a vaccine requires formal evidence to be beneficial to a younger population. Are there known side-effects...

We don't know the side effects or the beneficial effects since it hasn't been studied/approved for that (we likely have studied it, but not with enough rigor for FDA approval). It is, in all likelihood, fine, but when it comes to medication, we typically want a study rather than a guess.


It's just the usual FDA conservatism only for interventions (status quo bias).

"Low risk" unfortunately doesn't mean no risk. I wish to be vaccinated against all disease, but rationally I must acknowledge very low probability event of harm from vaccination. It's why they're recommended only for 50 and older.

Seems the price where I live is about 500 euros for two doses, not extremely expensive, though a few times more than e.g. Twinrix and some other common vaccines that aren't covered by regular insurance.

It's not clear from the information on local private clinic web pages whether they'll make a fuss or not but I kind of doubt it. It's not uncommon that people manage to pay themselves to prescriptions for methylphenidate and amphetamine, it would be weird if shingles vaccine was more gatekept than those.


I’m more worried that by the time I’m 50 it will no longer be available…

It was less expensive to study in older populations because they get shingles at higher rates, so it was only studied in older populations. That's all.

Early on there were also arguments that supply was limited, so the age minimum was to restrict supply to those who could benefit the most (frail elderly). But that ship has long sailed.


I think you can if you self pay, but insurance only pays in certain circumstances.

I tried and they won't give me. Gonna ask my primary care to request it.

good question. but that is how it is in the US and MX.

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