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You should consider thinking of people as precious, rather than these odd fine tuned segregated negative groups seemingly based on skin color, political leanings or social status.


They refuse to look critically at the trade offs. I don’t even know how thats possible at this point.

Everything in life has trade offs. Everything.


> They refuse to look critically at the trade offs.

That is a bald assertion. I do not agree.

Of course it depends what you mean by "they", but medical researchers do look critically at the trade offs

There were failures of communication from fear that nuance would be misunderstood as uncertainty

Also for large sections of the population, many in my community, the state generally and the medical establishment in particular, have no credibility for the sadistic way they have been treated.


It really feels like we are in the middle of a recession.


Worse, we’ve been in one but have been pretending we aren’t. Stock goes up.


If not for the top 10 of the S&P 500 - the companies that can get a meeting at the white house - we'd probably be in a recession and S&P would be down.


It's almost like a merger of Capital and State.


It has been and it is. Both US and China have successfully created a Leviathan albeit if different form. EU is way behind and that’s why it’s losing.


The EU did it too, probably second with the US being last. It’s just that the EU focused on worker’s rights, protections for origins of products (can’t call bubbly wine Champaign if it’s not from there), etc.


To compete with other Leviathan unfortunately you have to become one too. It’s just for survival.


Why is there an implication that only leviathans survive?


It's "losing" compared to the US? Haha. I guess from a true VC startup bro perspective. It's not "the EU is way behind the US and China", it's "the EU and US are way behind China". Because the latter is the only one who has been taking long-term decision on decision over the last decades, whereas for the other two, 95% is for the short-term, the next quarter, the next election a year from now. The US is even worse in this regard, hence why it's deteriorating even more rapidly.


You might say its rather socialist...


Just missing the social programs that redistribute the wealth to the working class

The system/ideology you're looking for starts with an "F" and ends with "ascism"


There's a better word for it.


It’s #9 on the list actually


An actual socialist would say the state in capitalist society provides a legal and infrastructural framework that supports business enterprises and the accumulation of capital, so it is business as usual. But feel free to throw words around as they mean nothing.


Why don't you exclude the worst performing industries instead?


Because 10 bad performing companies performing worse isn't what drags us down to a recession. Not in terms of stock market.


Previously discussed:

“ Without data centers, GDP growth was 0.1% in the first half of 2025”

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45512317


Given that the dollar has lost ~10% of its value since the start of the year, that's good... Right?


Waiting for the music to stop…

(Actually I'm not, but the rest of the market seems to be. In this version of musical chairs, you can sit down any time you like—you just miss out on potential gains before the music stops.)


That's because music doesn't stop often and historically not sitting down was almost always a better strategy.


You're playing musical chairs and meanwhile a signifigant part of the workforce isn't even in the building as an audience. Especially Gen Z. We're going to make a truly revolutionary generation from this (I'm not sure if it's in a progressive or regressive way).


The biggest "pretend" is where spokesmen, spin doctors, and sycophants for the plutocrat class have somehow convinced the 99% that stocks going up makes more jobs for the little people.


The most pernicious part of the con is that by systematically dismantling pensions and forcing everyone into 401(k)s, they've ensured that we all have to root for the plutocrats. We're forced to watch our retirement funds, which means we're incentivized to hope Amazon's stock does go up after firing 14k (or 30k according to other sources) people.

It's a system of forced complicity. We have to root for the billionaires, or we risk our own survival in old age.


Our survival in old age is guaranteed to be a shit show no matter your wealth. Social security won’t be there. Medicare won’t be there. Your one room apartment in your assisted living place will run you $15,000/mo. And still, no one gets out alive.


Depends on how close you are to retirement.

I'm not even halfway there. I'd rather think long term and legitimately fix issues in the economy. I don't need number to go up explosively every year.


are stocks even going up outside of tech stocks that can benefit from AI investment? everything else seems stagnant


No. And even in tech, its highly concentrated in AI.

The S&P 500 is almost 10% Nvidia. Just Nvidia. Y'all that's scary.


It’s broken. They did this and think it’s ok, it’s not. It’s most definitely not.


The Nifty Fifty concept from the 70s sound almost sensible compared to the bullshit of Magnificent Seven of now.

The same cycle just goes around and around...


SP500 is flat this year when you account for loss of purchasing power of the US dollar:

https://ycharts.com/indices/%5ESPXEUR


Factor out the AI companies doing circular dealing to juke their stock price and GDP growth was like 0.1% combine that with purchasing power loss and US economy is net negative.

It's pretty clear what happens next.

Over 42 million people are about to lose their SNAP payments in 4 days[1] and millions more medical care.

It's gonna get bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g7d9j7p5qo


The only publicly traded companies that are involved in what could be considered circular dealings in enough volume to affect their stock price are Nvidia and Oracle.


So, the company that, by itself, is 10% of the S&P 500.

I never would have bet on an Nvidia crash alone being what causes the 21st century great depression, but reality is alwways stranger than fiction.


"Exclude data I don't like, combing it with other data that's unrelated in unknown ways, and voila: DOOM!"



>when you account for loss of purchasing power of the US dollar:

I see about a 10% growth in your charts and that's what experts estimate the loss on the dolar has been this year. What's the deal?


The "deal" is that those chats are already adjusted to foreign currencies. That's 10% growth in those currencies.

Maybe your experts aren't such experts.


Why are we pretending that other currencies also aren't falling? Those charts don't negate that suggestion.

I'm no expert myself, but feel free to argue with them if you are:

https://www.morganstanley.com/insights/articles/us-dollar-de...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/d... (note: This one comes from Paul Graham himself).


Line goes up or it gets the stonks again


Well, it may be - hidden, at least in the US, by the "AI"-Bubble. But also an interesting point is that these layoffs do not happen in struggling companies -they all have increasing profits.

It is most likely a way to squeeze out some easy penny and pump up share prices - remember the "shareholder value". Shareholders today are all looking for pump & dump schemes.


Is there anyway to "fix" this? WHy are people only thinking short term these days? That mindset seems a bit... morbid.


"At the end of July, Amazon reported second quarter results which beat Wall Street expectations on several counts, including a 13% year over year increase in sales to $167.7bn (£125bn)."

The stock-owning class is in a boom. The working class is in a recession.

(People who have stock-market investments and need to work for a living are somewhere in between.)

The average of one billionaire gaining £10M and a hundred middle-class folks losing £100k is solidly positive, so this looks like a "growing economy" to many of the usual metrics.

I am not sure whether the people who are benefiting from all this have noticed how often this sort of dynamic in the past has led to torches and pitchforks and the like.


Is that an increase in sales, or just everything getting more expensive?


A year on year increase in sales is real. It's not silly metrics like "net worth". Actual value is being exchanged.


The middle? Oh we are just starting....


Our industry has probably been in a recession for the past 3-4 years. Where have you been?


We are…


We already were in one. You just waited until someone else told you it was too late.


Recession is a term with a very defined meaning and that meaning does not include employment at all.


It does include employment. It's discussed in terms of "employment" or "jobs" thresholds and trends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

> In the United States, a recession is defined as "a significant decline in economic activity spread across the market, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales."[4] The European Union has adopted a similar definition.[5][6]


Yes, more accurately we're in the middle of an extremely shitty economy for everyone but stockholders


We've been in a global economic depression for more than a decade already.


Does feel like that


Recession is officially whatever NBER says it is and it doesn’t have a well defined meaning.


Also it’s by design a trailing designation. You will be in (and possibly out) of a recession before NBER declares one, by definition.


This is actually a good read: https://www.nber.org/research/business-cycle-dating

Employment is an important indicator according NBER.


I don’t believe they last as long as a natural gas boiler, so the total cost of ownership needs to take that into account.

They now make really efficient refrigerators for your kitchen that you get to throw out every 2-5 years.


> Finally, people don't really care about the truth.

What is truth? Pontius Pilate


This is what minimum wage deals with to some extent. Governments decide what jobs may exist based on how much a company can pay to do the job.


I learned once (on npr when i used to listen to it) that when you hear some new information, you should immediately think the opposite. This gives you the ability to not subconsciously weight the idea you heard higher than you should. After all, for every point in life a reasonable counter point exists. I've done this for many years and I do believe the practice has helped me not blindly believe things.


You could be a millionaire if you are right.


You can be right and still go broke shorting something. "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." And shorting crypto has additional challenges beyond shorting traditional securities.


I'd probably ask "Why 5 times?" and then it would be game on.


By six, you're usually at something like "because that makes me happy". By seven, you're into metaphysics and cognitive science.

Of course, some issues are genuinely simple, and you're off in unhelpful territory halfway through. I suspect five why's is a decent estimate, but not necessarily more accurate than four.


There's a really good Louis CK routine about this, involving his young daughter.


"Diminishing returns."


I imagine it's intended to be a feature. You can instantly listen to any of your songs on any device.

They should have just left it on the local drive as well. Terrible.


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