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Remember when every project acronym used to be YA-something for “Yet Another…”? Or when recursive acronyms were the hot trend?

Don't forget startup names that randomly dropped vowels. I don't miss the days of twttr.

Depends on what you mean by "young". By some measures, the U.S. is one of the oldest nations in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_sovereign_state...


I am not talking about political borders. The countries of the new world are completely separated from the culture of the land, uncharted territory.

The city I live in practically didn't exist by most measures until the 1940s. Meanwhile many cities in Europe draw roots back a few thousand years BCE. The lot my house is on was barely even used as farmland in 1960, and got turned into a residential area finally in the 80s.

But sure I'll trust you in telling me this is a much older civilization than Greece. Makes sense.


Mesolithic Greece, starting in 13,000 BC is more or less on par with civilisation in North Texas: https://www.thestoryoftexas.com/discover/campfire-stories/am...

Where Greece has it over your region is Paleolithic Greek history which stretches back further.


Revisionist history you're pushing here. I'm well versed about the native tribes in the area, definitely more than the average North Texan. A very interesting history, don't get me wrong. They didn't develop cities like anything you'd think of as a city today. Small roaming developments of maybe a few hundred people tops mostly. So when we're discussing "urban design" it's pretty irrelevant. That some branch of a nomadic tribe might have used my neighborhood as a hunting ground 15,000 years ago has little impact to the discussion of it's urban development.

The Caddos would be the closest to making cities in the area, but the people living around there date back over a thousand years these larger communities we might call towns were still mostly small enclaves that didn't last more than a few hundred years at the longest mostly. And they were mostly a pretty recent, being a few thousand years newer of a civilization than Greece et. al., as they appeared well after 1,000CE

Meanwhile Athens and what not can easily be seen as an actual city even 2000BCE.


> Revisionist history you're pushing here.

Which part of the Texas history link is incorrect?

Civilisation is civilisation . it comes with and without attributes such as cities and agriculture .. the point made is that the timelines in Texas strecth back 13,000 years.

> has little impact to the discussion of it's urban development.

Their urban development consisted of light footprints, seasonal migration in worn patterns, walking, etc.

That can be contrasted with how contemporary US citizens live, how the Dutch live, how varies other people still live today.


This is a discussion about urbanism, not just broadly "civilization". Nomadic tribes didn't live in urban environments.

The city I live in practically didn't exist until very modern times. The fact some people used to to hunt around here 16,000 years ago has little impact to the modern way the city was laid out and designed or the people who mostly live here today.

There's practically zero way to draw the roots of this town back to some group that camped here 16,000 years ago. Any form of lineage of civilization was lost a looooong time ago. Extremely few people would even draw their roots back to the Caddo, who are far more recent than anyone you're suggesting here.


This is a discussion about community - See thread title.

Some communities move - Not a hard concept for most.


Yeah, they moved. Away from here, for many reasons, often under bad situations. And most no longer exist, and are thus irrelevant to the discussion of lineage of current towns.

Insane you're really arguing a suburb of North Texas is older or at least as old as Rome or Athens.

So yeah, as an identity, this area is extremely young in comparison. It absolutely does not draw its roots back 16,000 years. We are not an extention of the Caddo people, they were not an extension of the first peoples who were here.

> Because we have mainstreets, buildings, blocks, community centers, parks, American-style squares...

Seems to me we're talking urban design here! That's kind of the whole point of the article, looking at urbanism in Europe to the US. Maybe you're imagining some other topic, but urbanism is deep in the discussion overall. I don't think nomadic groups had a lot of thought to how wide their highways were or planning our their parking lots.


> Insane you're really arguing a suburb of North Texas is older or at least as old as Rome or Athens.

That's your strawman.

I merely pointed out the area you live in has a long history of civilisation.

As pointed out in part by @1659447091 upthread, and as does North America in general - there was a great variation in culture across that area, some parts had very stable communities and reportedly taught the Europeans a thing or two about trade agreements and democracy <shrug>.

There's an odd bit in the HN guidelines

  Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously;
seemingly that's a hard concept for some.

You have a nice life. All the best.


If you're going to cite the guidelines, I thought your "not a hard concept for most" was rather out of line.

I agree ..

It was a throw to now removed usage by the person I replied to in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46342642

That and a few other choice phrases were well over the line.

They significantly edited their comments after I started using their own words in my replies.

Cleaning up after I quote the guidelines citing their usage leaves me looking the worse .. but so it goes.

I have a genuine interest in human history across the globe, they had a visceral reaction to the mere suggestion of prior occupation and use of land in Texas .. let's just mark that down to them having a bad day.


You know what's snarky? Suggesting a suburban city actually draws it's roots to 13,000 BC when it definitely doesn't. Suggesting it does is a disservice to those people who were forced away.

Not trying to compare Greece with North Texas(or Louisiana) in 13000BCE here. There are ancient sites with "sophisticated" cultures/societies that spanned large parts of the current mid to east US -- and were also unlikely to be nomadic tribes passing through.

There is evidence of major construction projects, large trade centers/complex societies along the Mississippi Valley covering large areas with a trade network across the mid/eastern/southeast US. Watson Brake is currently the oldest* at ~3500BCE[0], but less studied and smaller. Poverty Point ~1700BCE[1] is more like a city or major trading hub. The effort to build the mounds and ridges is far more impressive than is likely from a roaming tribe. The construction is not haphazard, there is evidence of housing and many astronomical markers/alignments throughout the mound builder cultures of North America.

Cahokia Mounds[2] (far more recent) is considered an urban settlement, occupied from around 800CE and at its peak 1050-1150CE, thought to be larger than London or Paris at that time.

* Watson Break was discovered in the 1980's and the 6th mound at Poverty Point discovered in 2013. There could be many more that have been overlooked/undiscovered or razed -- being that we still don't fully understand them and they hardy look like what we are use to.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_Brake

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_Point

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia


I'm well aware of these. And yes, lots of areas around North America had quite complicated and developed societies with large trade networks and even "highways" connecting ancient cities.

But, these things are practically entirely disconnected to the societies of people living in the US today. And that's the point I'm making, this area is very young in terms of what is here now. That some other group developed something like a city several hundred miles away thousands of years before this town existed has effectively zero impact on the development of this place and the lives of the people who live here. This isn't necessarily the same for cities that have existed for hundreds or thousands of years which still even has some of the same streets and buildings of history.

You'd be hard pressed to find a single structure still used here today that was older than 1940 in this town outside of a few notable rare examples dating back to the 1920s, that's a closer example to my point. What's the age of the oldest building in Paris? How about London? Athens? Trier? These are places that have had a practically uninterrupted flow of people living in dense urban places for many hundreds to thousands of years. This is just not true for massive parts of the US. Few cities draw their roots back to even the 1500s, with many having their roots go to the 1800s or even newer.


You’re absolutely right about this.

The Republic of Venice, Holy Roman Empire, and Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth were all still around when America was founded.

Malta was still under the control of the Crusaders. Mongols still occupied Crimea.

The modern European map really comes from the 19th and 20th centuries.

Many European memories of nationhood are quite fake, and often deliberately so.


Yeah, but it doesn’t fit into the American mythos, I guess.

"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

The article claims precision to a city block or individual factory?

I remember one night my dad drove up to a building with three letters on it. Walked up to some lady behind a desk inside the front door, and after arguing for a bit, pulled out his checkbook and wrote on it, passing the check to her. I watched as he turned and walked back to the car looking a sad mixture of dejected and pissed.

I asked “what’s I.T.T?”

He said “it stands for Blood Sucking Leeches.”

And we drove home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Technical_Institute


I think my school was owned by them (it was called “R.E.T.S.”).

It was expensive. $6,000, for a 2-year, full-time curriculum. I took a loan, and spent 10 years, paying it back.

Best investment I ever made.



Pi-Hole only works when the tracking / ad scripts are hosted from different domains than the actual content.

Don't worry, when you blackhole the entire tiktok domain, you'll still be able to use grindr.

Or did you still want to be able to view tiktok?

Sorry. Can't help you there. Or can I? https://www.torproject.org/download/ or https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/proton-vpn-fast-sec...


TikTok will de-anonymize you and connect you back to the ad networks in days, speaking as someone who tried really, really hard to not get it to do that.

They probably have the most sophisticated fingerprinting ever created.


Yep! And luckily Tor Browser works pretty hard at defending against that. It even goes so far as to box the rendered page resolution so it cannot be connected to the same resolution as your main browser.

But you can take first steps by using a simple dns proxy to make things more difficult.


I don't mean that, I mean behavior. The algorithm that is TikTok is running a test fingerprinting you with every video shown. It's like stylometry on steroids.

Honestly that probably makes it easier to fingerprint you. How many people do you think actually use Tor? Instead of needing to identify you from millions of users, now they just need to identify you from the five or so Tor users

> Don't worry, when you blackhole the entire tiktok domain, you'll still be able to use grindr.

Grindr can still sell your data.


It was a response to same-origin tracking. I didn’t claim grindr would not sell your data.

People deserve privacy even if they aren't tech savvy enough to use pi-hole, even when they aren't on a network they control, even if they don't know their privacy is under attack.

Highly recommend people check out this simple alternative. It's like a better, modern dnsmasq.

https://github.com/AdguardTeam/dnsproxy


Setting up a whole-home adblocking solution takes a few minutes with pi hole, and it's got a very functional web interface for actions such as unblocking specific sites for specific systems on your network.

That dns proxy looks intriguing but looks like quite a bit different from the simplicity of pi hole.


dnsproxy is a single binary that does everything, very simple.

My nontechnical wife isn't going to care it's a single binary when I remove the PiHole web interface that she's used to using on the odd occasion she needs to disable blocked for a bit (for example).

I feel like I need to avoid channelling Bob Saget from Half Baked when I say that is not addiction. That's a habit.

There is a noprocrast feature in your settings to specify how long you can stay on for a single session and the frequency at which you can view HN. Super helpful!

oh interesting (honestly!), how is that it distinguished?

Don’t let me distract from this learning opportunity with my armchair expertise. There are a lot of articles out there for this exact topic, but here’s one that’s pretty good.

https://relevancerecovery.com/habit-vs-addiction/


It reminds of reading Tao Te Ching.

What is the definition of right and wrong if NOT a moral one?

Indeed! However, law is not a definition of moral right and wrong; rather, it is a spatiotemporally varying definition of societal and judicial rights, permissions and restrictions of conduct which are usually grounded in the locally prevailing morals.

Law in a democratic society is a manifestation of so-called social contracts considered binding for members of that society.

However, law in a non-democratic society can be the complete opposite, to the point of enabling immoral conduct, including but not limited to legal crime, persecution of political opponents, ethnic cleansing and offensive warfare.


It’s subjective. It’s always subjective. A person can convince themselves they’re right to conduct all sorts of heinous acts if they simply alter their perspective enough.

Morals are fundamental to the process.


Laws aren’t subjective, though. So clearly there is a fundamental difference between laws and morals.

Could we even say laws are the society’s objective morals?


It is a moral one, but laws have no morality.

Yep, Tesla was my first thought as well.

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