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Current AI systems have started to do things without ever being prompted for anything at all?

All the time, yes. But you have to keep two things separate in your thinking:

- Prompted as in prompt made of tokens -> for LLMs, tokens double as a clock signal. Time only flows when tokens are pushed through them.

- Prompted as in specific request placed in the stream of tokens -> Yeah, they do that all the time whether it's getting into infinite loops of repeating same pattern, or suddenly deciding to do things based on inputs they normally ignored.

Also don't forget that everything is a "prompt" for LLM. All input tokens end up in the same place.


So without a token pushed into them they do something? Not sure I understand...

In the current UIs is there a lot of suppression then as I have not seen things start on their own?

I meant an LLM doing something without any external prompt at all. Not doing something different etc but rather do something without a token/prompt ever flowing to it.


Not as far as I know, but I have personally seen my coding agents take on a prompt like "See if you can port this project to typescript", and work for hours, defining a myriad of subgoals and continuously summoning and managing subagents while developing ad-hoc tools and skills.

There is to the best of my knowledge no fundamental limitation to having an agent/claw go on like this for 80 years with a prompt like "live your life to the fullest".


But there is also still a huge part that doesn't run on software with so far little change.

With incessant advances in robotics, how long would that continue to be the case?

Should we start preparing for something that could be world-changing in the next 10-20 years?


When I graduated a bit over 10 years ago some people were saying we'd have a permanent mars bases by now. When my parents graduated they were told they'd retire at 45 and have 3 days work week due to "automation", they're still working at 60+ today, more than back then actually

People should open history books and gain some political/historical culture, this thread is 90% wishful thinking and "if the lines continues straight from now we'll basically be gods in 5 years"


The "Yesterday's weather" argument works perfectly just up to the point when it doesn't.

For how the world might change in 10-20? I'd say no need to prepare, too many hypotheticals.

"Ten years from now, I think we will realize that we were standing in the foothills of the singularity now... I believe that we're only a few years away from [AGI], maybe 2030 plus or minus a year...

I think [AGI] will be an enormous transformative technology, it's going to effectively be a new human era...

We can feel this year, I would say, even though I've been working towards this for 30 years, I think this year with the way the agents are working and tool use, it started to become really useful, still early days of it, but genuinely useful in people's workflows...

And it's not any one thing, it's several different technologies, several use cases, several things that I thought were maybe a bit further out, turned out to be now, that are coming together that make me feel that in aggregate.

I think society needs to hear that because we don't have long to prepare for what that means." -- Demi Hassabis, CEO of Google DeepMind & Nobel laureate

https://x.com/deredleritt3r/status/2062223035940139253


Certainly a well reasoned view, but I don't necessarily have to agree.

Even assuming the technological predictions to be correct, still not sure I agree on the need to "prepare" as how things work out in societies and economies might not be so easy to predict.


How would the labs have power? What physical force would they command to put against any government?

The physical force of AI zealot dreams:

A bunch of noble AI researchers stands up against the hand that fed them all the time, intentional vulnerabilities are already built into every machine of death and destruction owned by the feeding hand, and get exploited, the feeding hand is robbed of its punitive force and defeated, a yell of YAY fleets over the progressive humankind who kneels before its AI overlord unreservedly.

Then they kindly ask the AI overlord to please fed them.


Large domestic corporates pulling the plug in a war seems unlikely to impossible as wars tend to go with what are effectively command economies.

It's not just pulling the plug. It's serious economic disparity between regions and legally mandated espionage as well.

If the EU had own large corporate hyperscalers that would be an issue there for the EU?

Yes it would still. Which is why I think the process is misguided. I mean look at Hungary which was a near miss. It needs to be resilient to state failure as well.

This means that the entire idea of a corporate EU spanning hyperscaler should never exist.


State failure is something the Europeans have experience in dealing with.

That aside: how much would that cost in lost economies of scale?


Why would measures aiming to create more energy supply necessarily hit the economy and the populous?

Losing a chunk of your energy supply, while simultaneously having to build a bunch of new energy supply, will hit the economy.

Yes, losing hurts, but building new supply would necessarily hurt why (instead of being accretive)?

Because it will cost money, and that money has to come from somewhere.

If you have 300 froblets per month being shipped to you, and suddenly you have only 200 froblets arriving and you have to spend £5 billion building a froblet factory, then you're both going to be short on froblets and high on expenses at least until the factory is built.

And yes, in the long run you'll have built the factory, will be getting a safer supply of froblets, and everything will be sunshine and roses, but while you're building it all that's an extra expense that you have to find the money for.


Investment costs money but why would investments hurt? What hurts is the loss of supply.

The money is spent on something and comes (hopefully) with a positive RoI and NPV. And you could borrow to build to reduce own capital outlay.

I don't think there was a lot of new energy production was put into place, though.


RoI isn't instant. If it takes you 20 years to build as much supply as you need then you're spending money over that time to try and get back to where you were.

And spending money on one thing means you don't have it for something else. Even if you're borrowing, you can borrow less for other things, unless you want to break your credit score, which would also hurt.


Your first paragraph is describing the effect of the loss of supply, not the investment.

I don't think Europe was anywhere close to borrowing capacity, so plenty of scope there.


Where is the investment coming from (the capital markets union/savings and investment union isn't there so far)? How to make building infrastructure faster? Could some other regulation be removed to aid AI and tech use?

Not convinced adding regulation alone will solve things in European tech.


Trump's actions are pushing Europeans towards federalisation as a broader trend.

More specifically things like this are happening quietly in the background:

https://commission.europa.eu/news-and-media/news/eu-inc-maki...

This mandates a few things:

Countries must do certain things in English to ensure a common language.

Simple liquidation for bankruptcies, register once and operate across the EU.

Places like Germany have loads of talent but are cumbersome to setup a startup etc. This reduces that.

Things won't change overnight but a decade from now things will look a bit different, capital markets won't match the US by then but I expect the dependence trend will start to have reversed. There is no crystal ball for these things.


There is stuff happening but I think most of it is addressing side issues (and cannot address some cores outside of an actual USofE, if then).

For example, how would that overcome local resistance to new infrastructure or reduce the huge amount of (local) regulations in a significant way?


The US has these issues as well as still has a strong tech sector, you also have to keep in mind a successful outcome for the EU won't be what the US has right now either. You get charts like this floating around the internet: https://postimg.cc/Yh8TPs8g

Nearly always presented as a 'dick swinging' look how great we are chart in a EU vs US vs China stand off. However it reveals flaws in the US as well. A successful tech sector in the EU will be lots of small bubbles where the combined area is somewhat approximates what is in the US and China.

A handful of giants is not desired here in the EU, you can see the issues this presents in the US as well, chiefly: it's distorting the political system to becoming like Russia. Oligarchy.

That's not even getting in to the chart is deeply flawed but that's not the point I'm making.


Yes, certain issues are found in the US, too, but doesn't mean they shouldn't perhaps be addressed.

Some things also might need scale at least in aggregate and either tech leads to some sort of Coasian singularity or having a lot of small things comes with additional transaction costs.


>A handful of giants is not desired here in the EU

Then explain the giant Airbus. Or the giant VW. Or the giant Siemens. Or the giant Dassault. Or the giant ABB. Or the giant Stellantis. Or the giants Shell and Total. Or the giants BNP Paribas and Santander.

This whole "EU hates giants" trope being repeated on HN is just unfounded cope at EU's failure to scale and grow its newer domestic players to challenge the ones from the US and China, so they spin its weakness and failures as some form of benevolent virtue the EU is doing for the world by not building giant companies, when the truth is it just can't even though the EU would love to have US style giants as they bring in a lot of revenue along with geopolitical soft and hard power the EU is severely lacking ATM. If EU actually hated giants it would break up Airbus, Siemens, Dassault, Stellantis and others into smaller companies for more competition instead of supporting mergers that support its domestic monopolies.

> it's distorting the political system to becoming like Russia. Oligarchy.

It isn't. EU's own domestic giants are good enough at distorting EU politics without being FANG size. See VW political spending after Dieselgate. Or the political spending of the auto sector in general to shape regulations in their favor since they control so many jobs across EU's largest economies.

If you have a corrupt government that gives in to corporate interests, it's not the size of your companies that's the cause, it's the corruption of your elected leaders, since no company is above the government no matter how big it would get, as the government has the courts, police and military which no company can match, which is why companies always bend over to government requests

A Russia style oligarchy comes if the government gets too big, powerful and unaccountable, not from the size of corporations. Putin didn't attack Ukraine because corporate Russian lobbyist paid him to. In fact most Russian businesses, oligarchs and entrepreneurs got absolutely wrecked by Putin's idea to invade Ukraine, they never wanted this because they have more to lose from this.

It's the government that fucks shit up for the people, not the corporations. Big corporations just dance to the tune the government plays.


Joe Biden says ‘oligarchy’ emerging in US in final White House address

https://www.ft.com/content/262f2980-a380-45b0-bcaf-1d7d68918...

Average American is suffering and it's them who's coping with the idea that a small percentage of Americans are at least getting extremely wealthy.

US is threatening to invade Canada and Greenland, this sort of rhetoric is beyond unhinged. The US under Trump has literally been downgraded as a 'liberal democracy' and is now an 'electoral democracy' the same category as Hungary under Orban. https://www.v-dem.net/documents/75/V-Dem_Institute_Democracy...

The EU has no giants, what you listed are large companies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_corporations_by...


It's ironic that the EU has adopted English as their primary language now that England is no longer in the EU.

It almost certainly makes it easier to adopt English, since it no longer has the political optics of favoring a country.

The issue i with this type of "pragmatism" that leads English being the main working language (a language that is only official in one country and even there is "seen as colonial relic") is this sort of half-assing attitude is what created the status quo - EU and european people lacking autonomy in all sorts of social and economic life.

Ireland?

Ireland can claim that actually they'd rather it be gaelic. It has the perception of a colonizer language for them too.

If AI could do it all, why would there be any firm if AI could operate itself, too, then?


Only the highest and lowest level jobs are available. Someone needs to report to shareholders and plan. If a PM can just write tickets and they get done, then you just need one PM.

Maybe this isn't practical today, but in 2, 5, 10 years? I still have to work 30-40 years before I retire, what do I do?


One argument may be that ownership is the last role for a human in a business. The firm exists to show ownership of an AI and provides a mechanism for managing its proceeds.


Why would everyone want to do everything themselves? No comparative advantage at all and infinitely capable robots?


The entire discussion is predicated on the arrival of an AI future where AI can do any human labor at incredibly low costs and all but eliminating the value of human expertise. If getting something done resembles "doing everything themselves" then that future did not arrive.


The "incredibly low costs" part is part of the classic AI discussion, but it's not part of this AI discussion.

The article makes clear, it is describing not a hypothetical future trend, but the trend that we are seeing today, where you don't actually get that much more productivity by replacing people with today's AI, you actually probably lose more than a bit, but it's still a good deal for business anyway, because they would rather pay AI companies than people about the same amount of money to do about the same amount of work.


The AI would solve all your problems without even needed to prompted in any way?


The price for legal work going down might very well create more demand, including for people operating "law machines". Not sure we know where future equilibria lie.


One recent comment from my interviews was that people who use AI are using it for tasks in domains they didnt deal with before. So this would be creating dashboards or writing sql queries. Or reading and reviewing contracts.

The “easy stuff” for someone’s job, is now the AI stuff for someone else’s job. Where you would hire an intern, the potential client is using Claude instead.

The issue is that this breaks the talent / growth pipeline. You can’t have experts if they don’t go through the process of getting trained and working on incrementally harder problems.


> The “easy stuff” for someone’s job, is now the AI stuff for someone else’s job. Where you would hire an intern, the potential client is using Claude instead.

And what happens when the SQL query has some subtle error or is missing data?

With interns, there’s an implicit understanding that you will spend a bit of extra time reviewing their work and mentoring them. With “just AI it bruh,” there is not.


Demand for law related things isn't elastic. In fact, in an increasingly unemployed, AI first future, work law is a dead end, contract law is a dead end, and there will not be "AI law" jobs created.

"Price go down means more demand" applied blindly is a an economic theory so absurdly shit that even the most apeshit libertarians like Ayn Rand know it isn't true. Don't make me defend Ayn Rand.


Labor law will be hit more by widespread use of robotics, but I can envision a much larger market for contract disputes and transactional law. Having AI in both sides doesn’t mean people won’t disagree about stuff.


> Demand for law related things isn't elastic.

Of course it is. When someone is thinking of suing someone else the first thing that gives them pause is the potential legal costs.


Which hasn't changed, because the company you would have sued that was spending 200k on a lawyer is now spending 500k worth of tokens to spend the next consecutive 300 hours without sleep to find out that you took an unauthorised 5.1 minute shit on April 23 at 3PM by reviewing every single hour of camera footage and establishing a physical movement map of MAC addresses based on proximity to the WiFi relays they put every 10 meters.

You. Cannot. Win. Against. Capital.

And then you're going to sue, and realize that the system is so massively overloaded that the next available judge and jury are in 32 years. Also they're lobbying to replace those with AI judges where they entirely removed the concept of nuance.


If AI eats law, then AI must also eat judgement (either judge or jury) for the bulk of cases.

Could see the future being AI arguments -> AI judgement -> appeal to human judge/jury

With the appeal to humans being expensive (human lawyers required?) or volume-barred in some manner.


What is an "AI first future"? Infinitely capable robots and AI? All current laws and regulations suddenly gone or changed?

Why would there be less demand for contract law or for privacy related law, for example? There is certainly some elasticity in law related things from my own experience.

Where have I applied elasticity blindly?


There are all sorts of different regulatory systems for all sorts of slightly different kinds of things.


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