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Everybody knows slavery ended with the Roman Empire.


It ended slavery as the dominant form of doing agriculture.


Then the end of slavery in the Empire and and the start of serfdom, more efficient than slavery, after de Diocletian reforms killed the Empire. That's contradictory. And slavery was still a thing after those reforms, as other comments say.

Diocletian reforms, the corruption, civil wars and the inability of defend itself eroded and destroyed all the structures that made the Republic great all those are the reasons that made the Empire fall.


The Republic was gone for a few hundred years before the Empire fell in Western Europe (and the Eastern part of the Roman Empire continued for a thousand years more).


I'm talking about the political, economical and social structures, not the Republic.


This is a bizarro statement than any historian would laugh at.

Slavery, in lots of different forms, flourished for nearly a millennium and a half throughout the world after the fall of the Western Roman Empire (including, quite conspicuously, in the Eastern Roman Empire for nearly another thousand years...) It's very strange to me that you consider slavery responsible for the downfall of Rome given how it was so prevalent everywhere for so long after.


In Southern Europe, if you consider serfs different from slaves (they were, but only to a small extent).

Slavery is extremely economically efficient in reality, especially if you have the power to force the slaves into utter servitude, like they did in the US South. The south, and the USA as a whole, would never have been as rich if they didn't have slavery at the right time. It was important enough that h he confederacy was willing to fight a war over it: they knew, and they were proven right, that losing slavery would plunge them into poverty, as it did.

Of course, this is not a defense of slavery: in all its forms, it is a disgusting, disturbing, inhuman institution that must always be fought against and dismantled. But this can only ever be done by the will of the people, against the economic interests of the slave masters. An unregulated free market will always seek to reintroduce slavery (just like it will converge to monopolies or at least oligopolies and many other undesirable traits).


>The south, and the USA as a whole, would never have been as rich if they didn't have slavery at the right time. It was important enough that h he confederacy was willing to fight a war over it: they knew, and they were proven right, that losing slavery would plunge them into poverty, as it did.

If the South was so enriched by slavery, why did they have such a lack of guns and industry with which to build them? And why could they only buy less than a tenth of the guns that the North bought?

The answer is that they never industrialized because if you force slaves to work expensive machines, then those machines will be sabotaged. Slavery cripples your ability to mechanize.

If slavery really were better for the economy, then the South could have won the war even despite their lack of numbers - if the South had armed every single soldier with a breach-loading rifle (they mostly just had smoothbores, mostly muzzle-loading) then the North simply wouldn't have been able to push the offensive and would probably have been losing ground. The South's strategic goals were easier than the North's - the North needed to annex the south (or re-annex, semantics) whereas the South only needed a stalemate. The South mobilized first, so if anything they should have had more guns than the North.

You're quite correct that slavery is wildly profitable for the slave-owner, so they had more than enough capital to industrialize, so why didn't they?

>In Southern Europe, if you consider serfs different from slaves (they were, but only to a small extent).

The ethnicity is important here: if a serf runs away, there's no obvious inherent indicator they're a serf, making it easy to make a new life nearby (e.g. a few towns away). If a black slave runs away in the Antebellum South, then other villages will assume he's a runaway slave until proven otherwise - that runaway will have to escape the entire South. The serf's greater ability to escape if he's treated too poorly gave him bargaining power that limited the abuse of feudal lords.


> The answer is that they never industrialized because if you force slaves to work expensive machines, then those machines will be sabotaged. Slavery cripples your ability to mechanize.

I think this highlights some differences between Roman slavery and slavery in America (and many other states). While many Roman slaves were engaged in menial labour some of them were trusted enough (and presumably comfortable enough) to be in positions of responsibility in nearly every facet of the Roman economy.

Freed slaves could go on to have successful careers, sometimes rising to high positions in Roman society, something that it is hard to imagine happening in the American south.


Racism probably played a part in that, considering that many Roman slaves were Greek or Italian, while Southern slaves were black and blacks continue to face discrimination a century and a half after the end of slavery.


Slavery in the US made sense for a limited time but at some point it would have hold the US back economically. It would have lacked enough free workforce for the industrialization and so would have fallen vastly behind compared to other countries.

Slavery is very profitable for the slave holder but not for the society as a whole.

Like if you take Nazi Germany. Many companies got rich by being provided essentially free slave labor that they could free work to death. But does it really make sense to have educated people work themselves to an early grave doing menial inefficient labor that needed to be closely supervised? Could they not have provided much more to the economy if they had been free? The practice is as sustainable as eating your own flesh.

Nazi Germany could keep going as long as the war machine kept going and there were countries to occupy but it wouldn't have been a very sustainable society in the long run.

Yes capitalist have an individual interest in slave labor and in forming monopolies. But in doing so they also also create conditions for the undoing of the very society that made them rich. That is exactly the point. Slavery is amazing for the slave owner but not for everyone else.


A installation guide would be great. I'm trying to install it and I don't know what to do with the mbin file. When click on it says something about connectfour application missing.


mbin most likely refers to "MacBinary" (a format used to preserve the Mac resource fork when a file is passed around online/on non-Mac file systems)


Indeed, I use .mbin for MacBinary, as the more conventional .bin is overloaded with other meanings.

I also use .mbim for MacBinary+, which encodes a directory tree instead of a single file.


I've tried different versions of Macbinary without luck, maybe I'm missing something.


The mbin file can be opened with StuffIt Expander, it contains the installer application.


Stuffit extract the installer but it doesn't do anything, I don't know what I'm missing.


I was also using Stuffit (5.5) originally, but I just gave it a try with good ol' standalone MacBinaryⅢ and that worked too. It should go like this: https://imgur.com/a/YKd4Zvs (first three screenshots)

Once it says Done you can trash the installer. There will be a new folder in the same location as the installer, and within that folder you can run `MacRelix`.

The last two screenshots are me using the `sbin/upgrade` script from within the first Relix flavor to fetch a second Relix flavor.


Thank you. I was finally able to install it, I think my setup is to blame for all the issues. I think I wasn't able to open the .mbin because I downloaded it on Linux before moving it to the emulator, and it missed some information in the process. Downloaded it inside the emulator using iCab, and after several tries (probably because networking on my emulator doesn't work properly) was able to open it on StuffIt 5 and decompress the .gz during the installation.


I don't know what they expect with this, but it will end with the EU's shoe up their asses.


I'm the exact opposite of a Apple fanboy, but can you enlighten me with what they are supposed to do here?

EU says "you must allow XYZ in our jurisdiction" so Apple allows XYZ in their jurisdiction.

Right?

---

Tbh, this just seems like unintended consequences of policy. But explain what I'm missing.


Does one cease to be an EU resident or citizen if traveling abroad for more than 30 days?


I'm not sure what criteria Apple should be using to adhere to the EU-specific policy


Very simple. Phones bought in the EU should adhere to their laws.


No because that would cause world wide people to buy EU phones just for the third-party stores even if they live in other countries.

the law that apply to a phone is the law of the country you are at the moment.

Third-party store are there because an EU law that only apply to EU territories.

If you are out of the EU the law does not apply and Apple is not required to give you access to third-party stores.


The alternate is this distopia where a megacorp decides how long you get an alternative, possibly only until the moment you step outside the zone. Or even the moment you turn on a VPN.


no.. but EU laws only apply to EU territories.

the second you step out of EU, EU laws stop applying to you and the laws from whatever country you are in the moment start applying.


The EU law here applies to Apple, not to you. Apple remains in the EU for as long as they have entities in the EU or operate in the EU. Thus Apple must follow EU law for as long as they have not exited the EU market completely.


And apple does follow the law..

Apple devices that are within the EU laws jurisdiction does have access to third-party stores..

apple devices that moved to another jurisdiction are no longer subject to EU laws and therefore no longer have access to third-party stores.

The big question i have is if i with my non-EU iPhone will have access to third-party stores as soon as i step into EU, even if i do not live in EU and i am not a EU citizen.


If the point of sale charging my card is located in the EU, even though I've been 2 months in Thailand, they're going to have issues guaranteed...


That sounds more like marxism


Marxism is the "we're almost there, just keep trying" of political theories.


To the bottom


Is not just that. All of those could be white or not, but AI can't refuse to respond to a prompt based on prejudice or give wrong answers.

https://twitter.com/nearcyan/status/1760120615963439246

In this case is asked to create a image of a "happy man" and returns a women, and there is no reason to do that.

People are focusing to much on the "white people" thing but the problem is that Gemini is refusing to answer to prompts or giving wrong answers.


Yes, it was doing gender swaps too.. and again only in ONE direction.

For example if you asked for a "drill rapper" it showed 100% women, lol.

It's like some hardcoded directional bias lazily implemented.

Even as someone in favor of diversity, one shouldn't be in favor of such a dumb implementation. It just makes us look like idiots and is fodder for the orange man & his ilk with "replacement theory" and "cancel culture" and every other manufactured drama that.. unfortunately.. the blue team leans into and validates from time to time.


It's not the accuracy, the problem is that it refuses to create images of white people


exactly - if I asked it to generate an image of a historical figure, and the color was not accurate - that can (possibly) be explained by a bug or training error that might improve over time - but if I ask it to generate a picture of a 'typical white family' and it flat out refuses to, that is not an accident.


The problem is more that it refuses to make images of white people than the accuracy of the historical ones.



AI can't suffer


Suffering in humans is not limited strictly yo physical real.

If AI is self conscious, claiming its a person and is suffering.

What can you do to prove or disprove it? Nothing.

This is a brick wall of "The hard problem of consciousness" and we dont have any good ideas to solve it yet.

Not that long ago people claimed animals dont really suffer. As they are a biological machines that pretend to be hurt.


No, we are attributing feelings to an overglorified spreadsheet. I understand it, we have empathy, but AI is just responding to an input the way it have been trained, like other piece of software.


you and me are a glorified spreadsheet running on wetware (brain - neural net) do you have feelings?


You're funny.


I see... maybe you shouldn't be talking about stuff u clearly have surface level info or twitter opinion about, eh?


Dude, you're a spreadsheet. What are you talking about?


holy cow, understanding a simple metaphor is too much to ask?


Just had a brief vision of the not so distant future of you being held to account for this comment by superintelligent AIs


I support Roko's Basilisk... And so should you


Well, in reinforcement learning, wrong outputs are inherently painful for the AI. If the system expects getting negative feedback regardless what it does, I would say it is suffering. I would also define torture as giving it negative feedback for any possible output.


Prove you can.


Philosphy aside, current 'AI' can't suffer in the same way notepad can't suffer.


Naive arguments aside, humans can't suffer in the same way a steak can't suffer.


Humans are alive, steaks are not. Current AI suffers as much as steak.


Prove that AI can.


I'll just torture you until you prove you can.


If you can't see the difference between a live being and a piece of software who is going to suffer are you.


Piracy, It works. You can even keep using Spotify without paying them or listen to ads.


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